I first became aware of these places back in the '80's when I had occasion to go to downtown LA. While curious, I never ventured inside one because I had the preconceived notion that only immigrants and old geezers went to those places and that the women were mostly overweight and over-30 transplants from Tijuana.

Actually, during their heyday in the 20’s, '30's and '40's they were quite respectable and were frequently depicted in the movies of that era. They were very big back east, particularly in New York. The men, who typically wore suits, would buy tickets, which they would give to the hostesses in exchange for a dance. The tickets were 10 cents each; hence they were called "dime-a-dance" clubs. Sometime in the post- war era they began a slow, gradual decline. Now they've virtually disappeared from the scene, with the exception of Honolulu, New York City, Detroit, Oakland (which as recently as twelve years ago still had a couple of clubs), Dallas, Houston, the border towns of Texas, and LA, where they continue to thrive.

My perception of these places changed when I read an article in the L. A. Times Magazine (July, 1990 I believe) entitled "Taxi Dancers." It featured excerpts of interviews with dancers, customers, and then current and former club owners. The article mentioned about four or five clubs but mainly focused on the now closed Club Flamingo, which was then the most popular club. It said that you could dance with 19 and 20 year old girls and that some heavy petting took place there.

When I finally went several months later I was pleasantly surprised to find a lot of young, attractive girls working there, most of who were Caucasian. A lot of the customers did look like they may have been immigrants, but they were mostly middle class Asians instead of the working class Latinos I had expected. There were only a few old geezers and a surprising number of men in their 20's and 30's.

The popular notion used to be that most men go to these places because they’re lonely and can't otherwise get a pretty girl to pay attention to them. That’s true in some, but not most, cases and some of these men even go seeking "romance." I’ll say more about this later. Most of these guys go for the same reason I do, which is to have fun. Then there are a surprisingly high number of guys who are just looky-loos. I am at a loss to explain this phenomenon, which seems to be peculiar to these clubs. Some of the guys could be waiting for a certain girl to come in or finish dancing with another customer, or a girl with a certain "look," or just want to hang out with their friends and maybe play some pool. Or it could simply be that they have nothing better to do.

Why do I prefer hostess clubs to strip clubs? First of all the cost is much less for the same or better mileage. If you go to a club like the Jet Strip or Bare Elegance during the specials when the dances are "only" $20, the songs are cut at 3-1/2 minutes or less, which works out to $5.71/minute. If you get several dances from the same dancer you’ll be expected to add a tip also. Most clubs (officially at least) have a "no touching" rule. Even the high mileage clubs like Hawaii Theatre or Tropical Lei, which are noted for their debauchery, are not as cost effective as an HC. IMO, the only California club that even comes close in terms of value for your dollar is Mitchell Brothers in San Francisco. Now on any given day it is certainly possible to have a higher mileage experience in clubs like HT and TL than in an HC, but consider this: In a SC you can easily blow $100 or more in less than a half-hour. For the same amount of money in an HC you can have a girl all to yourself for two hours, usually with a greater degree of privacy. Also, there is no "buy the lady a drink?" hustle to deal with. Secondly, the degree of physical intimacy is usually much higher. Personally I love foreplay, and it’s much easier to engage in that type of activity than it is in a strip club. There’s also the thrill of seeing how much I can get away with. The bottom line is I get more "bang for my buck" in a HC. Having said that, I don't mean to give the impression that HC's are nothing more than seamy dens of iniquity, although at one time that would have been true about a couple of clubs. The caveat is that you have to get the right girl!

There has been a recent flurry of interest about HC's on Zbone's bulletin board. I've also noticed that some posters have expressed a general feeling of dissatisfaction about the clubs. I believe one of the reasons for this is that they don't "get" what these clubs are all about. As I stated above, at one time these places were reputable establishments. However, they have long since lost their innocence. In the extreme cynical sense these clubs are about exploitation, primarily of the customers and secondarily of the hostesses. The girls are there for one reason and one reason only, to make money! To this end they will do whatever they feel they have to do within (and sometimes outside of) the bounds of their morals/principles/values.

You cannot expect to get a real appreciation for what these clubs are about in only one or two visits. To illustrate this point, I’d like to share the following story as told to me by one of the OG’s (old guys):

"I've been doing this s**t for over 21 years (since May 7, 1978), so without being too arrogant, I know what I'm talking about. Before I started going to the dance halls downtown, I had done it all. I had picked up chicks off the street, worked the nudies bars, been to the massage parlors, etc. It's only because I consider myself to be in a somewhat emeritus status that I am willing to adopt this mentoring position. I know all the OG's (even the ones that are retired) and I have seen the changes in the club scene over the past 20 plus years. I know that we have a different kind of patron now.

About 21 years ago, I saw a special of channel 9 on television dealing with something called "Taxi Dancing" that took place in these ‘sleazy’ (their words) dance halls located in downtown Los Angeles. After I watched this show, I said to myself, "What kind of desperate, low-esteem asshole would go to a place like this?" but I was curious and my curiosity got the best of me.

On May 7, 1978, I had my first dancehall experience. I fell into the Starlight (located on Broadway near Pico). I went to the Starlight over the next three-month period with about a frequency of about twice a week. I never danced. I just watched. What was really going on went COMPLETELY over my head. I did not figure it out until a little Farsi girl from Iran took me to the dance floor and cork screwed me into the floor. This was at a time in my life when I could still pound nails with my dick. This little chick grinded me so hard, I came in my pants. She then said, "Didn't you have a rubber on?" I said that I did not know what to expect. I went to the bathroom and cleaned myself up as best I could and then this chick sat me down and gave me this "mind-boggling" lay of the land. I was speechless. She pointed out to me all the girls who were f**king at the club and the others who would do it outside after work. At this time (1978), dancing was $12.00 an hour and the clubs had a policy (since rescinded and illegal) that you could take a girl home at 12:00 Midnight if you were willing to pay $24.00 to get her out. Of course, you made a separate deal with her later for additional carnal delight. There was a more collegial environment with the girls then that certainly does not exist today. I relate this incident to you because I don't want you to erroneously think that I have ALWAYS been a genius.

I realize that many of you come to the dance hall scene after having had extensive experience on the outcall, nudie bar, and massage parlor environment. You feel that you are getting much more mileage at the clubs than you got at these places. You are right, but you are probably still paying too much for the services that the girls are rendering. [Many of] these girls are collectively greedy, selfish, unappreciative twits. They interpret the patrons in a bipolar way. You are either a "shark" (tough consumer) or a "SUIT" (sucker). That's just the way it is.

Until the mid-80's, the dance hall scene was essentially an old man's game. By this, I mean that probably 95% of the patrons were guys with at least 20 years of adult living experience. Then I began to see an increased influx of YOUNG guys coming in. Usually, I was able to get rid of these youngsters by appealing to their ego and vanity. I'd say things like, "This is for old desperate guys like me. You're a good-looking young man and you should be over at Fantasia, or Vertigo, or Little J's picking up on those FINE bitches." This approach worked with almost 100% efficiency for about a decade and a half but it does not work today. The patron base is getting younger and younger. I noticed James about ten years ago. I did not pay much attention at first, but then some of the OG's started telling me horror stories about the outrageously large tips this guy was giving the girls---FOR DOING NOTHING! At first, I dismissed this as nonsense. I know that some of the brothers have a bent for hyperbole. A little later, I received corroboration from credible sources that this MORON was indeed out there throwing big bucks at the girls. My first response was anger and then fear. I said, "If this guy gets loose in my [girl] pool with these big tips---I'm dog-s**t." I immediately undertook a major misinformation/propaganda program to get rid of this idiot. I'll have to give him credit. He hung tough. The s**t I put this guy through would make the freshman "Hell" year at the Citadel look like a stroll in the park. My only saving grace for a while is that I was able to divert James' attention to all the "Trophy Girls" and keep him off my [girls]. Also James did not believe that you could really do it on the floor until a little girl took him on the floor and literally raped him. Since that episode, I have not been able to get rid of him. In all likelihood, he will be the new ‘capo’ of the carnal Cosa Nostra.

I like to feel that I am one OG that has been able to adjust to the new environment and new attitudes of the girls. There are some Neanderthal OG's who have not been able to adjust. They are stuck in the 60's. They hate you new guys and if they could, they would pass the hat, hire a hit man from Detroit and have all you newbies killed. Remember, just like some of you guys were watching me, you also are being watched."

Another reason for the dissatisfaction of some posters is that they probably made many of the same newbie mistakes that countless others have before them. As one of my fellow HC aficionados put it, "If you have [only] gone to strip clubs, you are probably 10% prepared to experience a hostess club. Strip clubs operate on the principle that if you spit out twenty-dollar bills like an ATM a partially nude woman will act dumb and friendly, sit on your lap and wiggle her butt. Basically it is the Stepford Wives scenario, robots on parade." Note: if any dancers happen to read this, those are his words, not mine, so please don’t send me any angry emails.

"[In contrast], hostess clubs are strange hybrids of depression era dance halls and modern day singles bars. Everyone is on the make and attitudes are openly displayed. You ask what mileage is available?" (Basically anything you can do in the high mileage strip clubs such as HT/SRI/TL, etc., with the exception of an actual lap dance, is available. You can do free-range fondling, grind, French, "get comfortable" and have your hostess guide you by the hand (hers). This is the most common form of extra. A few hostesses will even give you what I like to call the "presidential treatment" (you figure it out). Even less common but not unheard of is FS in the club). "Can you take a hostess to a motel room and tear up the sheets? You certainly can. You can also get called a pervert, get your hands slapped, have to listen how she was raped as a child, have a girl give you her phone number and never return your call, and simply refuse to dance with you. Like life, everything is offered and nothing is guaranteed. Like learning to ride a bicycle for the first time, the initial visit to a hostess club is always somewhat strange and sometimes painful. The milieu is so unique as to be disconcerting on initial contact. If you go, enter the club with an attitude of adventure and observation, not a closed mind and narrow goals. If all you want to do is get off, call an outcall girl."

With the exception of Sugar Honey, VIP, Starlight, Club Fantasy, Minato, and possibly LA Grand, HC's are generally low-class and somewhat depressing. Moreover, you will not find elite, escort caliber women there, and the better-looking hostesses are generally the least playful. HC's are very different from other types of encounters. What they offer is a departure from the norm -- some variety -- an adventure on the other side. However, they are no substitute for a good escort session and they are not for everyone.

If you're a newbie, I recommend you stay away from the Latino clubs, as you’ll probably feel out of place there. The best club to introduce you to this perverse world is Club Fantasy. Forget about feeling like you’re at a high school dance! Forget about wanting them to approach you! The only place that happens is a Latino club. Forget about fear of rejection! Remember that it’s the girls’ job to dance with you! They’re not supposed to say "no," and unless you’re filthy, reek from not having bathed for a week, or look like Quasimodo, they probably won’t. The one exception to this is if a girl is a "sharkette" who only likes to dance with "suits" or guys who look "money." In that case you’re probably better off anyway because she’ll just try to hustle you for $$.

The format is basically the same at all clubs. Instead of buying tickets, when you ask a girl to dance, she'll take a card from a rack and punch a time clock. For $.40 a minute, which works out to $24 an hour (there's a 10 min. minimum), you can dance and/or sit and talk on couches with the girl(s) of your choice. The standard tip in the integrated clubs is to match the bill. For simplicity's sake, I round off to the nearest multiple of $5. There's no nudity, but many of the girls wear minis and micro-minis, in a few cases barely covering their asses. Some of them also show generous amounts of cleavage. The clubs are dry, so the girls can be as young as 18. Most are in their early to mid 20's, a few in their early 30's, very few over 35.

Depending on how you define prostitution, there is very little of it actually inside the dance halls. This is where you make the contact. The actual "dates" follow later. What does go on: very, very suggestive dancing. Very obvious grinding, although some girls don't grind much at all and others will do fairly heavy grinding, and a lot of touchy-feely things, both on the dance floor and in the semi-dark TV rooms. Yes, the guy's zippers have to stay up (or the girls can get fired for this). On the dance floor some girls will give obvious signals like deep grinding, or grabbing your crotch. Time to go to the TV room!

At clubs noted for grinding like LA Grand, condoms are a must. Many girls will let you touch as much as you want, and in some cases, where you want. Your mileage will vary! Depending on the girl, you can get "extras." "Extras" covers a sliding scale of activity from grinding (including ass grinding, which is probably the closest equivalent to a lap dance), French kissing (rare), feeding, etc., to FS (very rare). The clubs pay the girls either minimum wage or on a sliding scale based on how many minutes they dance per week, but, as in the strip clubs, they rely mainly on tips.

Unlike strip clubs, these aren't the kind of places girls generally seek out for employment. For one thing they generally don't advertise to the public, so most people don't even know they exist. Some do so because it's convenient (shorter hours, easy money, etc.). Some do it to help pay their way through college. It's certainly more lucrative than working at McDonald's or Home Depot. Some do it out of economic necessity or expediency. Most of the girls have limited marketable skills and, outside of stripping, where else can they make $25 an hour? Due to the nature of the business, the girls have to "go along in order to get along" to a certain extent, which may at least partially explain why they are generally more willing to provide extra service than strippers. What exactly does that mean? Unless a girl is very attractive (an 8 or better) and reasonably intelligent and a good conversationalist, she will probably have to put up with at least a certain amount of touching and fondling in order to do well. That doesn't necessarily mean she has to let men "feel her up," but if she can't handle even gentle caressing she probably won't last long.

Tips? For girls who dance and perform in an obvious sexual manner, it is customary to get tips equal to the per-minute total charge or better, depending on the service. For girls who don't: much less, or none. Making dates for the future: Obviously, the better the bait--the more likely the catch. For somewhere between $100 to $150, most things can be arranged, such as a trip with the girl to a nearby motel later that night.

Most of the girls average about $125 or so in tips per night, the more popular ones (not necessarily the nastiest) may average up to $200. On a good night, they may make as much as $300. Some of the more popular ones have regulars who may tip as much as $100 per hour, and I've even heard of $200 tippers. These "high rollers" are usually Asian, or in some cases, middle easterners.

In the past I typically matched the bill for light to moderate touching and grinding, and I have frequently tipped 1-1/2 times the bill for heavy-duty touching and grinding, plus feeding and other comparable extras. That probably doesn't sound like a lot compared to what you'd spend for comparable service in a strip club, but most of the girls seem satisfied with it. Unless a girl actually provides FS (the dance floor is the most common location for this activity), you shouldn't need to tip more than $60 an hour. It’s not absolutely necessary, but a long coat may help disguise what you’re doing.

I have since been informed by some of the "sharks" out there that I've been tipping too much. They feel that the tip should be predicated solely on the nature of the service, and if the girl doesn’t provide extras you shouldn’t tip her at all. As they so colorfully like to put it, "no honey, no money." I agree that the service rendered should be the primary determinant, but I also believe in treating the girls fairly and that the amount of time a girl spends with you should be taken into account, particularly if you keep her more than a half hour. They have their opportunity cost (what they could have made dancing with someone else) to consider, after all. The girls have an effective grapevine. If you make a habit of keeping a girl a half-hour, an hour, or even more and stiffing them on the tip, the word will spread that you’re a bad tipper and they won’t want to dance with you. IMO the mind set that playing the "no honey, no money" game will cause the girls to "eventually get the message and start putting out" isn’t practical, at least not in the integrated clubs like Sugar Honey, VIP, Fantasy, and Starlight. For one thing, most of the girls do not provide extras. For another, there are simply too many guys who willingly tip the bill or a multiple of the bill for just sitting and talking and light touching.

So how much should you tip? Let’s look at four hypothetical scenarios. They don’t represent all the possible scenarios in an HC, but, with the exception of #4, they are among the most common.

#1: Clock time, ½ hr., fee $12, getting comfortable and feeding – tip = $20-$30

#2: Clock, 1 hr., $24, getting comfortable and feeding – tip = $25-$40

#3: Clock, 2 hr., $48, getting comfortable and feeding – tip =$50-$70

#4: Clock, 4 hr., $96, getting comfortable and feeding – tip = $120 - $150

The lower figures in scenarios 1 and 2 are more or less (and I may be being generous here) what the more hardcore "sharks" would tip Most sharks would probably not keep a girl two hours or more. The higher figures (in all scenarios) don’t necessarily represent what I recommend you tip, but rather a ceiling which I feel should not be exceeded. With the exception of scenario #1, anything more than double the bill is venturing into "suit" territory. Beyond getting comfortable, there are basically two higher levels that the service can escalate to, which I have referenced above. Assuming one hour as a base, tip no more than double the bill for the next highest level and no more than triple the bill for the highest (although you can often get them for less). For scenarios 3 and 4, if you don’t tip at least the clock the girl will feel cheated. One variable is how much time you spent in action. If you molested a girl for two hours non-stop that deserves a larger tip than 30 minutes of action followed by 90 minutes of conversation. Scenario #4 calls for a tip greater than the bill because you are monopolizing the majority of the hostess' shift. Having said that, I recommend you do not keep a girl more than two hours.

Here is what a CF hostess, hereinafter referred to as "Miss A," had to say about these tip ranges: "Low ends are for light or no feeding. To be safe lets put it in this way: The harder you make it for the girl to deal with you the higher the donation. No action, just chatting, rubbing back, dancing (light grinding), tip the bill and you're fine. A standard quote [for getting comfortable] is $40, one hour (top)." I know my shark associates would consider that to be too high. To keep it at a more reasonable $30 and yet not have the hostess think you’re cheap, try to consummate your business in 45 minutes or less.

When it becomes apparent a girl isn’t going to provide what you’re looking for, cut your losses. Remember that there's only a 10-minute minimum, so don't be reluctant to clock a girl out. If you only spend 10 or 15 minutes with her it is not inappropriate to not give a tip. She can’t really squawk because the most she could have realistically expected was $5. If you do this with several girls in a row, however, it could cause other girls to suspect that you’re a cop. LE's MO is to check out many ladies and quickly return them if they don't agree to put out.

If you spend at least a half-hour with her (which normally should be more than sufficient time to determine if she's a "player" or not) then it becomes more problematic. Some girls have told me they expect $20 even for only a half-hour. I think even a no action girl should get at least a token tip if you keep her a half-hour (unless she has an attitude problem), if for no other reason than to prevent being labeled as cheap. However, they are not likely to be satisfied with anything less than $10 for that amount of time. Why should you care if she thinks you’re cheap if you don’t plan on dancing with her again, you ask? These clubs, Fantasy in particular, are a world of cliques and vendettas. If a girl marks a guy as cheap or a troublemaker, all of her crew will refuse to dance with him. The "troublemaker" reference is more a comment on perception and codes of honor than specific behavior. All those seemingly neutral, emotionless faces staring out from the couches are in fact observing your every move. The slightest perceived slight will be immediately telegraphed to all the other hostesses in her clique. Case in point: an acquaintance once danced with a girl who noted he had been speaking with another guy at the club. He explained that this guy was a friend. She then told him that she did not like his friend and would not dance with him and none of her friends would dance with him. She then underlined the point by telling him he should find a new friend.

The HC community is more complex than you can imagine. Here is another layer to contemplate: Many of my fellow HC’ers like to try new ladies when they visit a club, with the ultimate goal of finding someone new they can see outside the club (for more intimate contact). Thus, they are often faced with the awkward position of walking past a lady that they previously spent time with in order to check out a new lady sitting next to her. This awkwardness is compounded if they have seen the lady outside the club. The hostesses are obviously there to make money, and understandably many feel slighted and disappointed when a previous customer bypasses them for someone new.

Another thing you will probably see is that the girls disappear for long periods of time in the rest room. What can they possibly be doing in there for so long? Miss A explains: "15 minutes in the restroom. Lemme see: walk in, frown, smoke a cigarette, nag about how slow and/or how cheap the customers are that night, fix the make up, wait for a restroom [stall] to be free, use it, wash hands, comment on this or that girls clothes, spray some perfume, put a smile on your face, and walk out. And this is when you know a good customer is waiting for you. That's pretty much the routine, if girls go in [as a] couple, than you can throw the watch away, honey."

Some girls like to maximize the volume of customers as much as possible and will usually restrict a first-timer (with them) to a half hour unless you tip them up front, which I do not recommend. [Note: I know one fellow who has on occasion recommended certain girls to me as providing good mileage. Then I go and dance with them and do not receive the same kind of service. I realize YMWV, but when I relate my experiences to him his typical response is "try more money." He claims he offers "big bucks" up front (I’m not sure exactly what that means, although once he cited the amount of $100). He claims it always works for him. I’m sure it does, but with all due respect to him, if he is tipping anywhere even remotely near $100, then IMO he is paying way more than he needs to]. They usually have to be very popular to successfully employ this practice. In this case if she's someone you’re sure you want to see again and you have reason to believe she’s a high mileage girl, tip her $20. This will create the impression that you’re someone who would be worthwhile dancing with again. You should dance her with again soon, i.e., within a couple of weeks, to make sure she doesn’t forget you. This time try to keep her at least an hour, and tip her no more than 1.5 times the bill to $40 an hour, depending on the service per the example in scenario 2 above.

Another variation of this that I have sometimes encountered is when I have couched with a new (to me) girl, who, after spending 30-45 (rarely more than 60) minutes with me, will say she wants to clock out because she "needs to make some money." This usually happens late in the evening. The last time it happened it was already after 1:00 AM. I had couched this particular girl only once before, a few months back, and had only done some fondling so I just matched the bill or tipped slightly more than the bill for about an hour of time. Considering there were only about 45 minutes left in the evening, I wondered just how she could realistically expect to make more money than if she had stayed clocked in with me. Of course as one of the few girls available at that time, maybe she though she had a good chance of being clocked in by some horny guy (I know for a fact that she provides extras). Anyway, since these girls usually haven't been with me before and therefore have no idea how much I'll tip them, I've always wondered what it really meant when I get that "need to make some money" line. Could it be that since I didn’t ask for extras they think I won't give them a "good" tip? They may be right, but at the same time they have no assurance that the next guy will or even that they'll get clocked in again right away.

I posed this question to Miss A, and here was her response: "Between 1am and 2am, part of the guys standing around are there for a quick HJ done within 20 minutes, they usually tip 40 straight. My best guess is that she was hoping to get a couple of those guys before heading home. Another standard [custom] is not to stay with new customers for more than an hour. Since, yes, you never know how much he's going to tip you. Either one of those two, or she just didn't have a good vibe about you."

There are some "sharkettes" in the clubs who will try to claim they're used to making anywhere from $60 to $100 an hour. If they try this ploy on you just good-naturedly laugh in their faces and say something like "do I look like I just fell off the turnip truck?" This will let them know you're not a sucker like the "suits" who throw money around like it's nothing for little or no service. You will probably have to do some negotiating with the sharkettes for extra services. If they quote a price you’re not willing to pay and refuse to budge, don’t argue, just clock them out.

I asked Miss A how many girls she knew of who made between $200-$300 a night or more. Her reply: "-$200 a night, occasionally/once a week, during what used to be considered "good nights." -$300 a night, few rare girls. Mostly thanks to regulars dancing with the girl for the whole 4-5 hours. I know two that used to make that much (used = ‘95 when the fantasy was populated with Asian + Suit-only type of customers.) Nowadays we got a Russian girl (long light brown hair, top 5’5", good shape, no accent, nice ass) busy from beginning to end that claims to make $ 400-500 per night. No clue on what her name is. Nobody working at the club can stand her. Most of the girls shoot for $150-180 per night average." Editorial comment: while "most of the girls" may shoot for $180 per night on the average, I would say $150 is a more realistic amount.

Some girls have adopted a new theory. You give them one dollar per minute. Whatever you want to do during that time is covered by it. IMO if truly "anything goes" then $1/minute isn’t too bad provided you complete your business within an hour or less, preferably 30 minutes or less. Otherwise the girl is pricing herself out of the market.

Now I’m well aware that some men just seek companionship and conversation. If all they want is for someone to listen to their problems, hold their hand, and hug them, fine. But to pay $40, $50, $60, or even $100 an hour for such service when there’s simply no need to is ridiculous. This spoils the girls and jacks up the price of action for everyone else.

The LA Weekly did a cover story on these clubs back in January of last year. You can find it on the 'net at http://www.laweekly.com/ink/99/09/news-wright.shtml I recommend that everyone read it. I heard a lot of the girls at Flamingo, Fantasy, and Dreamland were upset with the comment by one Flamingo hostess that "most customers feel comfortable tipping us at least 50 percent of the bill." Also, the Paradise Club has been closed and torn down. There are a number of points in the article that I disagreed with (too many to address here), but the one I most vigorously disagreed with is that guys go to these clubs "to fall in love." I’d like to think that most guys would know better, but there are always the inevitable PL’s who will establish a connection with a hostess and then think they are "in love" with her.

I’m sure you’re aware of the potential pitfalls of becoming attached to a stripper. Due to the nature of the fantasy that the hostess girl is selling, i.e., affection, emotional/physical intimacy, and the illusion of romance, the unwary or naïve customer is even more vulnerable to being exploited than the average SC customer is. Realizing this, a lot of the girls try to "work" the men for as much as they can get out of them, especially if they’re a "suit." They try this tactic on everyone basically, but in particular middle-aged men. Some of these men sit with the girls for hours, tipping $40 an hour or more for nothing, take them out to dinner, romance them with flowers and gifts, and take it slow in the usually futile hope that something will develop between them. What they often don’t realize is that some of these same girls were the ones who used to provide extras for considerably less until they found a "mark" like them.

Is it possible to date hostesses? Yes, and it’s also a bit easier to find HC girls who will see you outside the club, both for regular dates and "private sessions" than it is to go out with a stripper. I can’t give you any tips on how to go about asking a girl if she does private sessions. I would just wait until you determine whether she does extras first. Elsewhere on this site, "Mistress Xena" has covered the subject of customers dating strippers. I won’t rehash that here, except to say that everything she says can be applied to hostess girls as well. My advice is, see them for outside sessions if you can, but forget about dating them. Don’t be like the guys who seem determined to make the HC scene "The Love Connection" even though everyone with experience has told them that this scene is called "Let's Make a Deal."

Here’s another regular’s perspective of dating HC girls: "My thing is dating girls outside the club so my goal once I am there is not to get cranked but to get phone numbers for later...Surprise! Many disconnected/wrong numbers, endless excuses as to why they can't [see you] today, etc. I found that girls under 23 are incredible unreliable, to the point that I will avoid them altogether. The girls over 23 are savvier for business and some of them have gotten lots of referrals from me.

I recently took one of the top girls in the club to San Francisco for 3 days were we toured and f***ed our brains out...No $$$ exchanged, I just paid for the trip (which my company actually paid for the hotel, meals, car, etc). In LA I do pay for her sexual favors (one of my policies is no free p***y believe or not, unless they are a normal girl). But we hang out every other time around LA (which she loves) and this part has to be for free. But even after all this I can tell you that she keeps me at a distance and deep down she puts me in the same category as all the other men...

These girls …will do these incredibly flaky things, I will compare them to Street Walkers as to the way they think...And the real young ones are so f***ing confused that I don't have the patience...The lure for the girls that date outside the club is that they will spend endless amounts of time with you. I am more accustomed, in the last 25 years of literally thousands of girls, to pay 300 an hour for a nice hooker, I do my thing and MOVE ON. It will be unthinkable to spend the afternoon with them for free. The HC girls have all this time available, but after having experienced several of them I can tell you: it’s not worth it, disappointment will always follow...

So now I don't take ANY of them seriously. I connect better with the latinas since I speak Spanish, but even [then] the jealous boyfriends and multiple children are a turn off."

I know the above comments and those of my OG friend may sound unduly harsh as far as their assessment of the girls is concerned. To be sure, hostess girls have a reputation for being screwed up in some fashion (as do strippers), but they are also human beings and I try to treat them as such just like I would like to be treated. It's easy for some of us to take a condescending attitude toward them because of our vast edge in life experience. But just because they may be inexperienced doesn't mean they're stupid. I have met more than a few (usually college coeds) who were surprisingly intelligent and mature for their age,

There are a number of ways that the girls work the customers. Many of them will freely give out their pager #s, even to first-time customers. The purpose of this is to get you to return and ask them to dance again to find out why they didn't return your call(s)! Many of them have no intention of going out with you on a "paid date" or to do an outside "session." As one OG said: "It don't mean s**t, that you got her number, 'cause she gives her pager # to everyone and doesn't return any (most) calls."

Here is what Miss A had to say about this: "HC girls most of the time shoot for more clock time and more tips inside the club, rather than going out with customers. I'd like to add the following:

1. Sometime what you guys call "a good tip" is just not good enough for her to make up her mind. What I mean is that if the customer under-tips the girl or [doesn’t] tip the bill she is going to label him as cheap, therefore waste of time, therefore there is no chance she's going out with you without bringing the "donation" subject up.

    

2. the word "donation" wasn't mentioned for the outside meeting. (Most of the time donations are required even for dinner and a movie)

    

3. the donation mentioned by the customer wasn't enough.

    

4. it's ok to have the guy as a customer inside the club, but definitely not somebody you want to be seen around with...

    

5. She just does not do "outside services" but if you don't play the little mind game he might not tip you right inside (and you waste your time so you give out random numbers).

    

6. She just has better things to do than meet a customer.

    

7. She can't go out with everybody that asks at the HC. (dancing at least 3 times per night, especially when you get new customers...it's going to get pretty crowded after a while if you see everybody that asks)

    

8. if she can make a living inside the club, why should she go out with them too?

    

9. or it's simply a girl that likes to play "precious princess" and she is just too good to go out for a date with a customer...yawn!

    

10. No Nobel Prize [winner] will ever come out of an HC. Read: 2 digits IQ. What do you expect from girls that "will never leave the club for a real job", cause they don't want to work for 8 hr/day 5 days a week?

On top of these go the common reasons cause normal people cancel on dates (change of mind, earthquakes, flood, family problems, kids, flu, and mood swings)."

"I can't tell you how a particular girl [thinks] or deals with HC clients, what I can do is to give you guys an inside view of my personal experience + things heard in the restrooms (if you can handle it, without shooting the messenger).

Tonight, my dears I'm going to tell you a short story about this girl (hereby called P.) and her experience with two customers. First case, Jerome. Afro American dude, Nice suit, clean cut, all smelling good, started bragging about his job (lawyer) defending famous sport starts. How he got through night school while working day time ... than the favorite car being a Rolls Royce. After few minutes of dancing (grinding) he wants to sit down. Fine, let's go sit down. Grab here; feel that...the subject moves on the thought of having sex on his desk on the 40th floor of some downtown LA building. Jerome says over and over he will take care of the girl, and show her a good time. Yada, yada. P agrees on the "possibility" of meeting Mr. Shining shoes one of these days. Quick exchange of phone numbers. Security is bugging tonight. Back to the dance floor for some more grinding. Only that this time is getting out of hands. P's skirt is up her belt, he keeps on showing her butt to the other people on the dance floor. J not happy, tries to kiss her while going for the breast grasp...P has enough and tells him she needs to use the Locker Room. He decides it's about time to go, while walking her back to the front desk reminds her about how beautiful is the office view from the top of his desk. Pays $16, Tips her a WHOLE $5 bucks, turns on his heels and there he's gone. What do you think she will do if/when he calls her?

Second customer. Homi, known face, he used to dance with a friend, few months ago. Middle eastern fellow, on his late 30's. Apparently a good looking guy. Slow dancing, no grinding whatsoever. They go sit. After the usual questions take place (name, workplace, city, etc.) the cuddling starts, he massages her back. The guy has definitely a good touch. Homi would like to see her after work, she smiles, and asks a silly question to change subject. He lives with his sister, and doesn't take no for answer. P somehow has a good vibe about Homi. When he finally gets he won't see her the same night Willy is freed up, and taken care of. Once again here her phone number goes out again. Sometime next week, he will call her to schedule day and time. By now it's already 1.10 am. Time to go he charges his c. card for the $40 due to the house and adds $70. Nice, now she really likes him a lot. Homi gets the cash, gives her $30 and walks out. P storms in the restrooms, and decides that's enough for the night. Time to wrap up with the losers and go home with almost 3 hours of dancing and a big fat $35 bucks in her purse to feed the kids with. Will she pick up the phone next week? 5.00am. I think I'm going to unplug the phone and go to bed now. As seen in the movie: ‘why is her phone line always busy?’"

Now if you think strippers can be flaky, hostess girls are even worse, especially the younger ones. For example, I can't explain it but there are many girls at these clubs that give it up to the minimum wage security guards. One could probably come up with several reasonable theories why this happens but it wouldn’t be worth the time trying to reason it out. The important thing to understand is that these girls aren't the most rational women on earth. If she will do the security guard for free she will do you for your hard-earned money as long as she understands that you are giving it away freely!

Whatever you do, don’t fall for their sob stories and give or lend them money because you "feel sorry" for them. Nine times out of ten it will just be another tactic they use to work you: their car broke down, they got in an accident, someone stole their purse at work, their kid is sick and they need money to pay the doctor bill, etc, etc., etc.

Another way they work the customers is by providing a GFE ("girlfriend experience"). One of my associates said it best: "[Hostess girls] are not our girlfriends. They are service providers, paid to spend time with us, and paid to create an illusion. Good providers attempt to discern the desires of the client and fulfill the desired fantasy. If a GFE is desired, a good [hostess] will feign GF/BF emotions for the sole purpose of satisfying the client. Make no mistake about it; these GF/BF type emotions are not genuine --- they are feigned for the gratification of the client. It is simply not reasonable to believe genuine GF/BF emotions are immaculately conceived during a brief paid encounter. Moreover, one must never forget the reality that most [hostesses] see many clients per week, and willingly feign the GFE illusion for any and all clients so interested. Don't fool yourself into believing your are the only one who receives such treatment. Thus, it is simply undeniable that GF/BF type emotional displays by [hostesses] are inherently contrived and illusory (If the hostess had genuine GF/BF feelings for the client, a monetary exchange would be undesirable and counter-productive)."

You’ll be better off adopting a cynical attitude and assuming that these girls are only pretending to like you until they prove otherwise. No matter how "normal" your encounter with a girl in the club may seem the bottom line is that it is a business transaction. You need to deal with the HC scene the way that it is, not the way that you would like to idealize it to be. Yes, there have been those rare instances where a customer/hostess relationship has even lead to marriage. But if you are looking for that intellectual/spiritual soul mate, that special someone, that E-Ticket ride to Nirvana, you would be better served to look elsewhere because it is extremely unlikely you will find that person in a hostess club.

The girls can be divided into three broad categories, four if you count the "ice princesses"…although they are in the minority. The largest group is the "sit and cuddle" girls, who basically do just that and permit only moderate touching. Then there are the "clutch and grab" girls, who will permit a pretty good amount of touching and fondling. If they like you and/or find you attractive, they may let you take more liberties. The last group is the "bad girls," who usually provide feeding and/or let you get comfortable and sometimes more. Of course the breakdown between these categories varies from club to club.

If you have particular preferences, like a certain "look," I advise putting them aside if you’re looking for mileage. The Latina girls, both US and foreign born, are generally "friendlier" than girls of other ethnicities, followed by the black girls and European girls, then the Anglo girls. I don't know about Asian girls since my experience with them is too limited to make any generalizations about them. As the saying goes, YMWV. Note: you won’t find many black or Asian girls in these clubs, with the possible exception of Starlight, which had several Asians when I visited the club last year. Right now Fantasy and VIP have a handful of Asians and blacks. They come and go.

In trying to get action inside the club, the hardest part is to judge which ladies are "action girls" and which are probably not. In general look for bare legs, short skirts, and cleavage, although than can often be just a come-on. With enough money, many probably will be willing. Watch how they dance! Observe which of the girls around you are "friendly." Notice if they're touching their customers and how they're touching them. Also notice how your girl dances with you. Does she put her arms around you and dance close, or does she keep you at a bit of a distance (the "ice princess" routine)? Is she touching you a lot with some semblance of feeling in it, or is she just going through the motions? Although it's not a sure thing, this will give you some idea of what may or may not follow on the couches. Watch which girls leave the dance floor and head for the TV room -- and which ones head back to the time clock after less than 10-15 minutes dancing (usually not a good sign!). Keep your eyes open and trust your instincts! As far as knowing when to escalate the level of contact, just "use the Force." The vibes you receive from her will usually tell you if it’s permissible to let your hands roam a bit. One trick I like to use to determine what kind of underwear she has on is to caress the small of the girl’s back for a while. Then I let a finger or two slip a little lower along the hem of her undergarments to see if she has on a T-back or regular panties. Some girls will be cautious the first time dancing with you, because they don't know if you're LE or not. If you encounter a girl like this and you see her giving it up to someone else or your instincts tell you your mileage could improve over time, don't write her off. Give her at least one more chance; you may be glad you did.

Most of the clubs have waiters or waitresses who frequently go in and out of the couch areas asking the couples if they need anything. The clubs instruct the girls to always say "yes," although they don’t always do so. If you think you have an action girl, always order a drink, even if she doesn’t, and be sure to give the waiter or waitress a decent tip. This should ensure that they leave you alone for a while.

When dancing with a girl I don't know, unless I know she's a player from having observed her with other customers, I like to talk with her for a while to establish some kind of rapport and get her to feel comfortable with me. I don’t ask if she'll do such-and-such. Rather, once she seems sufficiently relaxed, I prefer to test her by letting my hands "explore" to see how far she'll let me go. If she lets me slip my hands underneath her skirt and place them on her ass or if she starts grinding me heavily right away, it's a pretty good but not necessarily sure sign that she may be amenable to other "extracurricular activities." Keep in mind this is the MO that I feel most comfortable with, and it works for me. So what if you just want to cut to the chase? Well, you can always just ask the girl what her rules are. Or, if a girl isn’t a player, you might ask her (once she’s satisfied you’re not LE) to introduce you to one who is. Sometimes you’ll encounter a girl who will ask you what you want to do. That used to throw me because I wasn’t expecting it, but now I just turn it back on them and ask, "what’s on the menu?" In the integrated clubs the girls rarely ask for the tip up front. If one does, tell her you usually pay with your ATM or credit card. Or, if that fails, negotiate with her until you agree on a price and service, then show her the money and tell her she'll just have to trust you to pay her when the deal is consummated. If she won't go for it, clock her out.

The larger clubs like Fantasy easily have up to 150 girls on the active roster. Everything is crowded--and customers face serious waits for the most desirable females. The best time to go to these clubs is mid-week. That’s when the best selection is. Fridays are almost as good, but on weekends the selection is usually not that good because most of the "A list" girls like to take the weekends off. The trade-off is that weekends are less crowded and thus offer more privacy. Late at night is not a good time to go. Fantasy gets very busy after 11 PM and VIP gets crowded after 10 PM. For the best selection try to arrive before 9 PM. After that the good freaking real estate, particularly at Fantasy, will be hard to come by. Actually, your best chance of finding an action girl and having decent privacy at Fantasy may be during "Happy Hour," which is from 4 PM to approximately 6:30 PM, although you will have fewer girls to choose from.

To get the most out of your HC experience you should go prepared. Some of my friends always bring their "HC Kit" with them:

1. Small bottle of Astro Glide or other lubricant (available at Sav-On in the right size to fit in your pocket)

    

2. Condom(s)

    

3. A small "pocket rocket" vibrator (some girls will allow and love it, others won't)

    

4. A moist towelette to wipe off the "rocket" in front of them (in case they inquire "where has that been?")

Part of being prepared is being properly attired. Avoid wearing a suit if at all possible. If not, at least remove your tie. A blazer worn with casual slacks and shirt is fine. Wear nice, clean, casual clothes. Dressy casual is OK too. Thin, soft cotton pants (not Dockers!) are best for grinding. If you must wear shorts, make sure they’re below the knee. Sweats are acceptable in most clubs. Obviously it helps to have bathed that day and to smell good.

There are more than 10 clubs and most are located in downtown LA. Most of them are listed in the Yellow Pages under either "Ballrooms" or "Night Clubs", but only three or four of them are really worth going to, IMO. There are really two distinct genres of hostess clubs. There are the integrated clubs (those that draw a racially mixed crowd) who cater to everyone. Here most of the girls speak decent English. Physically, these are the nicer and larger clubs and all have their own parking lot with private guards. These clubs recruit their talent by advertising in the Classified section of the Los Angeles Times (look under the "Gals" heading) or in the "Adult Entertainment" section of the LA Weekly. Then there are the Latino clubs, which cater primarily to working class Latinos and the girls are almost exclusively Latinas. They primarily recruit the ladies by advertising in the classified section of La Opinion, a Spanish language daily newspaper. Look under the "Clubs" heading. Most girls speak only very limited, or zero, English. I suspect that many are undocumented. Many are quite young.

I didn't include this latter group in previous versions of my "FAQ" because my experience them with is rather limited and, frankly, I didn't think they would appeal to most of the readers of this site. Nevertheless, to accommodate those who like Latinas, I have listed them here.

Recommended Integrated Clubs

Club Fantasy 307 W 4th St (corner of 4^th and Hill), Los Angeles, CA 90013 (213) 620-9572 Cover charge: $5. Hours: 4:00 p.m. to 2:00 a.m., every day. Food: Snack bar w/light snacks, candy, soft drinks, etc. Security parking: $4.00 after 4:00 PM, free after 8:00 PM. If you dance for at least an hour, they will refund half the parking fee. Be sure to show them your parking stub before leaving the club. VISA, MC, and ATM check cards’ bearing the VISA/MC symbol, video games, and no pool tables. $24 minimum on credit/ATM cards.

Located across the street from the Bunker Hill project, it has a somewhat better locale than most of the downtown clubs. This is actually a fairly clean and well-maintained club by downtown standards, and the clientele as well as the girls are a cut above most clubs. The quality of the girls used to be second only to Starlight, but now I’d say they have the best looking girls. Most are 7's and up, there are several 8's, and a few 9's. There are more Anglos, too, although probably better than 50% are Latinas. Some of the girls even wear long gowns or pants (yawn). You'll just have to go by instinct in picking a girl. They have picked up a lot of ex-Dreamland girls, so they may have as many as 80-90 girls on the busiest nights (usually Tues. through Fri.) The girls get their pick of four shifts to work: 4-10, 6-12, 8-12 (this explains why there are often more cards in the rack than there are girls after 12 AM), and 8-2. They have to be there within a half-hour after the shift starting time or they don’t get paid for their minutes. Weekends are slow before 8:00, especially before 6:30. During the week there may be anywhere from 8 to 12 girls by 4:30, and up to maybe 25 by 6:30. You can tell how many girls are working by counting the cards in the rack behind the clock stand. A colored card means the girl is there and not clocked in. A white card in front of the colored card means she’s there and clocked in with a customer. You can always call ahead and ask if a particular girl is working before you make the trip down to the club, but be prepared to be asked if you know her clock number. This applies to all clubs. With so many girls, they can’t possibly know them all by name.

 Last year they instituted a policy of requiring all girls to average 120 minutes dancing per night. If they don’t meet this quota during a three-week period, they will be suspended. I’m not sure how long the suspensions are; at Flamingo, which had a similar requirement, they were of two weeks duration. Last year the influx of new arrivals from Flamingo created palpable tension between them and the girls that were already there. Some of the Flamingo girls brought their heavy grind along with them, which I believe accounts for the somewhat increased grinding you see there now. With the recent closing of Dreamland there have been a lot of new hires recently, resulting in a glut of girls and creating a "buyers’ market" atmosphere in the club right now.

The dance floor action is not as nasty as Dreamland and Flamingo used to be, but the couch action is better. At one time I would have said only about 10% of the girls provided extras; now I'd say that figure is closer to 20%, maybe even as high as 25-30%. Still, that means that two-thirds to 70% of them don't. Security doesn't come around as frequently as at some clubs, but until a year ago they hardly came around at all. Then, about three weeks after the Danceland raid, a girl was busted for solicitation of prostitution. Within a week they hired new security guards on the evening shift that brought with them a much more aggressive security regimen. Now they make regular sweeps about every half-hour, sometimes even more frequently. They also turned up the lighting in the TV room, although the brightness seems to vary from day to day and week to week. You've got to watch out for not only security, but also the waitresses as well (especially Michelle, the heavy set, longhaired brunette who works weekend nights and usually has, shall we say, a very "casual" appearance). They have been instructed to report any improprieties they see to management. Also, signs have been put up in the restrooms advising "lewd conduct is against the law." Reportedly the girls are now being required to sign some sort of "probation notice" on the first offense, with the understanding they'll be fired if caught again.

There used to be very minimal grinding, but ever since Flamingo closed I've noticed some of the girls have gotten a little more aggressive. Still, nothing like Dreamland used to be. I recently heard, though, that according to one of the ex-Dreamland hostesses the owner has said any girl caught grinding would be suspended and the customer ejected. I know that even though the owner has apparently had no qualms about hiring former Dreamland girls, he has expressed concern over the type of customer that they will bring in. The alleged ban on grinding may be an attempt to discourage the girls from resuming their nasty ways. There are no cameras. Rumor has it that this club will be the next to go. The City has big plans for the Pershing Square area, just one block away, and the club is in the redevelopment area. I don’t expect anything to happen for the next few years though.

Nasty factor: two and a-half stars (out of a possible four). One of the girls told me that there is illegal activity that occurs after hours. I assume she was referring to girls going home or to motels with customers. I understand there is a hotel on Sunset and Beaudry (north of downtown) that charges $35 and sometimes you can pay by the hour. 

VIP Lounge, 15455 E. Valley Boulevard, Industry, CA 91746-3342 Hours: 6PM to 2AM (3 AM Thurs. through Sun). Tel: (562) 943-9915. VISA/MC $5 cover charge.

The club is located in the same strip mall as the Spearmint Rhino. There is a Pho Hoa (Vietnamese noodle place), a massage parlor, a bar owned by the same owner as the Spearmint Rhino called Mahoney's where a lot of the Rhino dancers hang out before their shifts; a Wells Fargo ATM and a Denny's within walking distance.

This club is almost as nice as its sister club, the Sugar Honey. As you enter the club the bar and cash register is to the right. The girls sit on couches across the room from the front door. Between them and the door are small tables and chairs for the customers to sit. To the left of this area is a dance floor, which is mainly used by the girls when they get bored of sitting down. To the left of the dance floor are three "booths" (actually, they consist of three bench style couches arranged in a "U" shape). Parties of two or more customers who will usually clock in an equal number of girls mainly use these booths and all will sit together. Between the booths and the door is a single pool table. To the right of the bar is the main "couples only" area, which includes a cabana-like TV room and a small, dance floor enclosed in smoked Plexiglas. There are additional couches outside and behind the TV room.

Privacy is not as good as at Club Fantasy. I’ve seen some pretty good grinding occurring on the dance floor, although if you go when it’s busy you may feel like a sardine. This club has a system similar to Starlight, where instead of picking the girls yourself, they prefer that you let one of the staff (usually the waitress/waiter or the floor manager) know who you want to dance with and they will get her for you. They use a computerized system to keep track of the girls’ time. The girls who are available are listed, along with their number, on the left side of the screen. When you clock in a girl they click on her name, which starts the clock running and transfers her name to the "With Client" list on the right side of the screen. When you bring her back they reverse the process. The program also has the ability to run a tab for drinks. Periodically they print out a list of the girls there that night and place it on the bar.

Pricing and minimum dance time is the same as most clubs. There is no minimum charge on ATM/credit cards. If you pay by ATM or credit card and, presumably, put the tip on the card as well, there is a 15% surcharge on the amount of the tip only. The club is smaller than Fantasy, and they may have as many as 50+ girls on busy nights. They have Lingerie Nights on Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday where the girls wear outfits ranging from very demure, i.e., a slip over bra and panties, to outfits more appropriate for a strip club that leave little to the imagination. Most of the girls wear something in between. There are no set shifts per se as at Fantasy. The girls are supposed to work a five-hour shift, then they can go home. The club doesn’t start happening until 9 PM, and a lot of girls arrive between 9 and 10. Looks-wise, the quality of the girls overall is not quite as good as at Fantasy.

Both the TV room and the larger, adjacent couch area have cameras, although you can’t see them. They have recently hired additional security guards, who patrol the rooms, lit flashlight in hand, at 10 to 20 minute intervals. The lighting in the TV room, which used to be quite dim, has also been turned up a bit. These changes were prompted by the discovery of condoms on the dance floor and other areas. This is what my OG friend had to say about this development: "When you have a situation where condoms are being found on the dance floor, sitting areas, wastebaskets, toilets and in the urinals, what you are saying to the club management and LE authorities is, "F**K YOU!" You cannot do that with impunity. In the past, police have actually gone into bathrooms at clubs (i.e., Danceland, Flamingo, Dreamland, etc.), gone through the garbage, and made condom counts. Augment your Carnal Implementation Kits! Carry rubber gloves, plastic bags, etc. Don't leave any evidence at the club of your dastardly deeds. Dispose of the evidence away from the club. Make yourself a mental checklist. Make sure that you don't leave any "mood enhancers," neck massagers, body oils, aqua-lube, lotion, etc. at the club to be found by guards, waitresses, etc."

Nasty factor: two and a-half stars.

Other integrated Clubs

Sugar Honey Lounge 17351 E. Gale Avenue, City of Industry (626) 964-1511 Cover charge: $3. Hours: 7 PM to 2 AM, every day. VISA, MC, and ATM check cards bearing the VISA/MC symbol. No minimum charge on ATM/credit cards. Directions: from the 60 (Pomona) freeway, take the Azusa off ramp, go north to Gale, make a right on Gale and left at the first light into the Costco shopping center.

This is the Spearmint Rhino of hostess clubs. The place is beautiful with lots of plants, nice comfortable couches and sparkling marble restrooms (at least at the beginning of the night). Reportedly the owner spent $100K remodeling it. As you enter the club there is a small anteroom, with a counter to the left where the girls sign in and also serves as the doorman's station. Velvet curtains similar to the ones at VIP partition off the entrance to the main club area. As you enter the club, the bar is to the right, with a wall separating it from the very small dance floor. To the left of the dance floor is the girls' seating area, and to the left of that along the other wall are a series of "booths," again similar to the setup at VIP, only there are more of them. In between the booths and the dance floor are round tables with about four chairs per table. The couch area is in a separate room beyond the girls' seating area. The entrance is curtained off and just opposite the last booth, on the way down the hall to the rest rooms. I peeked inside and noticed that it was similar to the setup at LA Grand. There is a small dance floor with a smoky partition just like the ones at VIP and LA Grand in the front of the room on the left. The room was not as dark as at VIP. They have Lingerie Nights on the nights that VIP doesn’t: Monday, Friday, and Saturday. I’ve recently been informed that Sunday will also be a Lingerie Night.

Nasty factor: The club has been open only a month, so it's still too early to tell. For the first three weeks they served alcohol. I think the idea was that that would be a drawing card since none of the other clubs do. However, it also meant they needed more security than the other clubs did. Business so far has been slow, so in an effort to pick things up they have stopped serving alcohol, cut back on security, and reduced the clock fee to $0.30 per minute, or $18 an hour. Once the newness factor wears off we should be able to get a better feel for what the mileage situation will be like. Right now I'd say maybe if you get there early, i.e., before 8 PM, you might be able to have some luck. However, the selection will not be very good at that time and, like VIP, they also have cameras. Moreover, the overall quality of the girls is not that spectacular. Hopefully this will improve over time to a level at least equal to VIP. They have about 25-30 girls on busy nights.

Club Starlight 1224 S Broadway, Los Angeles, CA 90015 (213) 747-7653 Cover charge: $5. Hours: Most likely 7:00 p.m. to 2:00 a.m. Food: Unknown, they do serve soft drinks, so they probably have a snack bar. VISA, MC, and ATM check cards bearing the VISA/MC symbol

I’ve only been to this club twice. It costs $26 an hour to dance with a girl. This is the plushest and most expensive club in LA, and the only one that has valet parking. It caters predominantly to affluent Asian men. Unlike the other clubs, you don't select the girls. When a group of customers comes in (they usually come in small groups, although don't feel shy about going by yourself), there are a couple of "mama-sans" wandering around who will go and pick girls to go over to their table. The girls sit behind a glass partition that allows you to see them, but they can't see you. If you see a girl you like, call one of the mama-sans over and tell her which girl you want. Most of the girls are attractive. They used to be mostly Caucasian, but when I was there last year I noticed they were predominantly Asian. If you go there pay careful attention to the time you clock in with a hostess, as the club has been known to "inflate" the clock time.

Nasty factor? It’s very dark in the booth area, but its also pretty open so about the only thing that’s available is getting comfortable (discreetly). There is a couch area on the other side of the bar where you may be able to do some feeding and groping. You have to watch out for the waiters coming through, though. I've met several girls who used to work there who've told me they quit because management, shall we say, strongly encourages the girls to "date" the customers, if you get my drift. I've recently been told that the dates occur during club hours, although most clubs prohibit dancers from leaving with customers during working hours. The dates are set up by the club and are not cheap, about three Ben Franklins for one hour, with the girl keeping two.

Unlisted Clubs

Some of you may have heard of another club I haven’t mentioned here. It is on the West Side and is a private club. So even if I told you about it, it wouldn’t do you any good unless you know someone who’s already a "member" or one of the girls who works there. It is smaller than the other clubs are, with only about 25-30 girls on the busiest nights; and it is only a moderate mileage club. This is the only club (that I know of) west of downtown, so if you live on the West Side or in the Valley please don’t email me asking if there is any club closer to you.

Currently Closed Clubs

Club Flamingo. This club closed over a year ago and most of the girls relocated to Dreamland and Fantasy. They are supposed to re-open at a new location near 17th and Los Angeles St. They have an information hotline at (213) 748-2512. The latest message on the hotline says they are "just a few weeks away" from being able to submit their permits for remodeling to the City. That message, however, is almost two months old. According to one of their former managers, they have encountered opposition from some of the businesses in the Fashion District, and now they have to go before the full City Council to get approval to reopen. Right now I’d say it’s problematic as to whether that will happen.

Dreamland, 833 S Spring St, Los Angeles. For a while from roughly the middle of '94 to spring '96, before the cops tried to shut them down and they had to install cameras, they were off the nasty factor scale. Used to be I could go there on just about any night knowing there would be about five or six girls who would let me feed to my heart's content. One night I danced with three girls (one at a time) and, um, digitally stimulated all three of them. There were beaucoup girls playing "Free Willy," too. At one point the place was more popular than Flamingo, and, rather than bother dancing first, I just grabbed the first available couch. Management made a token effort to enforce the rules, but because it was good for business they often looked the other way.

This practice, however, ultimately resulted in the club’s demise. Due to numerous violations accumulated during their "wild period," they were recently forced to shut their doors for good. One of the managers at another club told me he thinks they will eventually reopen (under new ownership of course, and of course not until well after the Democractic National Convention). We shall see.

Club Signature, 1235 N. Vine St., Los Angeles, Ca 90028 (323) VISA/MC. I heard this club went out of business after only a few months.

Latino Clubs

The "rules" for tipping in these clubs are entirely different (see the discussion under Las Palmas below). The girls are more likely to ask for the tip up front, because they don't expect that much just for dancing. Some girls will grind you without asking and touch you in an intimate way, then ask if you will tip them. In this case, start the negotiations at $20. Once you've agreed on a price and service, do not pay her in advance! Many will take your $$, then find an excuse why the services can't be provided (they may say security is watching you now or something like that) and it will be difficult for you to get your $$ back. If a girl won't accept that you will tip her when you pay the bill, walk off of the floor, pay your bill, and try another. Don't be embarrassed; the only word that will get around is that you are not a sucker. Don't be surprised if a girl lets you walk off of the floor if you can't agree on a price. There is so much free $$ going around it's hard to say how flexible the girls are at the moment. They probably won't stick around for a tip because they won't be expecting one. Generally you can tip about half what you would for the same service at VIP and Fantasy.

Minato, 16025 Gale Avenue (in the Cathay Bank plaza). There is no address on the building, but there is a big blue sign that says "MINATO". The club is actually in the City of Industry although it has a Hacienda Heights mailing address (zip code 91745). The club is in the same strip mall as the Sahara Theater (strip club). Hours: 7 PM to 2 AM every day. Phone: (626) 369-7573. ATM/VISA/MC/Discovery card. Cover charge, $5.

I originally did not list this club in the last version of my "FAQ" because the owner asked me not to publicize it on the Internet. However, now that it has been mentioned a couple of times on Zbone’s bulletin board, I feel there is no longer a reason to keep it under my hat.

When the club first opened it was an integrated club. Things went slowly but smoothly for the first few months. The main problem they faced was the Catch-22 situation that Sugar Honey is now going through: Not enough girls to bring in customers in significant numbers, not enough customers to keep the girls busy enough that it’s worth their while to stay. Then, suddenly and unexpectedly, they started getting harassed by LE. They would come in the club in large groups and immediately head for the couch areas, where they would shine their lights on the couples. No one knows what prompted this. There was speculation that their neighbor the Sahara was not pleased to have them there, although why a second rate strip club like the Sahara would have any clout with LE is beyond me.

As far as I know there were no actual busts made, although the club did get cited for the dance floor and it (the dance floor) was closed for a brief while (something to do with the permit not being secured within the appropriate time frame or something like that). The one-way mirrors, through which you could view the girls (who were in a separate room), also had to go.

The upshot of all this was that the owner decided to switch to a Latino format. He tells new customers that it is a "dancing and conversation only" club and advises them not to expect the same kind of service they’re accustomed to downtown. He also installed cameras and floor lamps like they have at Fantasy and hired two security guards, who regularly patrol the couples’ areas. I have not been there since the change, but from what I hear you can only expect moderate mileage at best, maybe some touching and grinding on the dance floor.

Danceland, 1324 S. Figueroa St., Suite 100 Los Angeles, CA 90015 (213) 745-6076 VISA/MC

I don't care for Danceland that much myself (the place is a dump). This used to be the Mecca for mileage, including boinking on the dance floor during the day shift (12:30-6:30), ever since Dreamland installed cameras. This is the only club that opens that early. Things have changed drastically since they were raided back in April of last year. The raid was a multi-agency operation involving the LAPD, INS, Dept. of Building and Safety, and the State labor board. Several couples were taken away in handcuffs, and the club was closed for five days due to "electrical problems." There is no question that it was politically motivated. With the Staples Center set to open in the fall of 1999 and host the Democratic National Convention in August of this year, the powers that be decided they didn’t want a "sleazy hostess club" right across the street from what will be the showcase facility for the revitalization of downtown. The club is just outside the redevelopment area, so the City couldn’t force them to move. When ownership declined the City’s request to move they decided to put the heat on. Now all rules, such as both of the hostess’ feet must be on the floor at all times, are strictly enforced and the place has been a virtual ghost town ever since. To date it has still not recovered. The raid also had a ripple effect on the other clubs, including Fantasy as I have alluded to above, although I think it was more a case of Danceland being singled out for special attention rather than part of a general crackdown on the clubs.

L A Grand 1040 S Grand Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90015 (213) 746-9200 VISA/MC Hours: 2 PM to 2 AM, seven days a week.

This club is not to be confused with the Grand Avenue Club, the regular dance club formerly known as The Shark Club, just a few doors up the street. When it opened about eight years ago it was actually very nice. It had a state-of-the-art lighting system and a kitchen from where you could order food. The kitchen has long since been closed and they have allowed the place to get run down. This is just about the only Latino club where you will find girls of other ethnicities. The reason for this is management can’t seem to make up their mind if they want it to be a traditional, dance intensive Latino club or a more tip intensive, moderate mileage club like Flamingo used to be (more on this later). Along with Fantasy, they have been one of the main beneficiaries of Dreamland’s closing. I hear they now have nearly double the amount of girls they used to have. When and if Fantasy ever closes, it has the potential to become a gold mine. There are two combination dance floor/couch areas. There is a large, enclosed dance floor in the main room just past the front counter at the top of the stairs. Just outside this room are a few couches, and there is an adjacent couch area that used to be the main dance floor. The couches in these two areas are the large, stuffed leather kind that is long enough to lie down on. There is another large couch area with a smaller dance floor just to the right of the top of the stairs. This is also the TV room. The setup in this room is very similar to VIP and Sugar Honey (the owner of LA Grand is also part owner of VIP and SH). There are cameras in both couch areas. They recently started having Lingerie Nights (on Monday and Wednesday, I believe). However, I also hear that the girls’ outfits are much more demure than at VIP, perhaps because of the different LE jurisdiction. The word is that they will be opening at 12 noon in the near future.

Galaxy Ballroom 902 S. Olive St. Los Angeles, CA 90015(213) 489-2944 No credit cards accepted

I have only been here a couple of times. They have a lot of girls, including several of the barely 18 types, but only a handful that I found appealing. There did not appear to be a lot of good freaking real estate.

Las Palmas Ballroom 950 S. Broadway Los Angeles, CA 90015 (213) 623-4408 No credit cards accepted

The club opens at 6:30 PM every day and the real window of opportunity for mileage is 6:30 PM until about 8:00 PM (maybe a little longer on Monday/Tuesday). You will be searched (with a wand metal detector) at the door. The main (first) floor is for non-dancing patrons and where the girls not dancing stand around. The club has a mezzanine that overlooks the main floor, a second floor and a third floor. All of these areas offer lots of places to hide. There are no cameras. The guards rarely if ever come up from the main floor. Your only concern is keeping the waitress from sneaking up on you. You can usually solve this problem by getting your drinks on the main floor and then telling the waitress that you have a drink and will not need any more service. The action is on the couches. A sign on the wall downstairs indicates the various types of music they play, but most of it is that "dance around your hat music." Many of the girls speak very little English, but everyone understands "dinero."

The girls at this club work 95% for minutes only. That is what I mean by dance intensive. They get a share of the dance fee, either $10 an hour or half the fee. I think the same applies to the other Latino clubs, with the exception of LA Grand. There the girls do expect a tip. A club owner told me a story of how he once tried to tip a girl $20 at Danceland but she asked him if he would buy another hour of dance time instead. He told me the clubs have the girls "brainwashed" into emphasizing the accumulation of dance minutes. If you find a girl that does something extra of course tip her; but if all she does is grind or let you grab a little there is no need. Their regular Latino customers do that anyway without tipping. These guys typically keep girls several hours, do what they can, and don't tip. It is the way it works in this club; the girls are basically working for minutes only.

I heard that many veterans were very pissed about the way prices skyrocketed after the (pre-raid) newbie invasion at Danceland. So what, you say? If you go frequently you will be able to spot them, since most of them aren’t Latino. It used to be that you could strike up a conversation with them (since you would be one of the few other English speaking patrons in the club), get to know them a bit, and exchange inside information with them. Now, many of them are reluctant to share information with newbies; they blame them for overpaying and making the girls overly greedy, which they feel resulted in vice being able to easily catch girls willing to do extra.

If you keep a girl 2 hours she is not expecting a $40 tip. She is happy to have made the 120 minutes. If you get a girl who provides extras be reasonable with your tip. $10 here is good, $20 makes you a king! Live by these rules and you will find that: 1) you can have a good time there, 2) the girls will like you, 3) the club will not attract unwanted heat from LE, and 4) some of the veterans will lose the chip on their shoulders and start sharing their inside info with you.

Nine Zero Seven Club 907 S. Hill St. Los Angeles, CA 90015 (213) 489-7620 VISA/MC

I understand they now open at either 3 or 5 PM. Call ahead to make sure. I hear it has a "ton of young beauties" and that it’s good for grinding. They alternate between slow and fast music every half-hour. During the slow music they turn they lights down real low on the dance floor. This is your window of opportunity for grinding or other freaking that may be available. As with all the other Latino clubs except LA Grand and Minato the couches are close together, which is not conducive to privacy.

El Gaucho 425 W. 8^th St. Los Angeles, CA 90015 (213) 623-4607 No credit cards accepted

This is the bottom of the barrel. It’s a small club with only two or three girls on the entire roster worth seeing. I hear mileage is good.

Other Sources of Information

There is a Club Fantasy page on TUSCL (The Ultimate Strip Club List)

http://www.tuscl.com/master.asp?mode=ClubChat&ClubID=7087

 

This site recently converted to a pay site. It costs $4.95 a month. It is primarily devoted to discussion of prostitution around the world.

http://www.worldsexarchives.com/discus/messages/1652/1744.html?956332199

 

Dexter Horn’s Yak-Yak Session:

http://www.jrssg.com/discus/messages/169/256.html?957315049

 

This site is primarily devoted to discussion of legal prostitution around the world. It's free, but you have to register to post.

http://www.redsnake.com/discus/messages/5/940.html

 

The World Sex Guide has a general LA area info thread at

http://www.worldsexguide.com/guide/North_America/United_States/California/Los_Angeles/

 Note: It takes over a month from the time a post is made until it actually appears on the board.

 

The Big Dog’s board has some scattered HC threads at

http://www.bigdoggie.net/la/

 

"Dave in Phoenix" has a review at

http://www.libchrist.com/sexwork/dancers/lahostessclubs.html

 

Dave’s most recent update is at

http://www.libchrist.com/sexwork/dancers/lahostess2000update.html

 

For those interested, a more clinical analysis of hostess clubs can be found at

http://members.aol.com/MMeckel2/index.html

 

There’s an interesting article on the more traditional, Asian hostess bar (as distinct from a hostess dance club) scene in Northern California at

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.05.96/hostess-bar-9649.html

 

Finally, there is a rather lengthy but extremely informative dissertation on the hostess club scene in Japan at

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/crijus/courses/allison2.htm

Acknowledgements

I would like to thank the following individuals for their contributions (even though they didn’t know it was going to wind up here…): Miss A, The Wolf, Mav, "Bottom Feeder," and Tight Specs. I would also like to thank Old Smoker, Big Daddy Freak, and James for all the information they have shared with me, especially concerning the Latino clubs.

For questions, post a message on the bulletin board or email TenFree directly.