Ask Z Bone For 2004

Ask Z Bone For 2004

Interesting e-mail questions will be on display here. But before you rush to your e-mail program, please check my FAQ first and read it carefully! Please, help conserve Internet bandwidth.

If you specifically want your e-mail posted here (flames included) with your e-mail address, state so in your e-mail to me. Unless you specify otherwise, I will not post your name here for everyone to see. So ask those hard to ask questions. E-mail maybe edited as I see fit.

Please note that Z Bone is not a doctor, lawyer, psychologist, CPA, or auto mechanic and therefore all comments made by him are his own views and are to be used "as is". What he says is only true if it's true for you. As always, YMMV.

Security clearance

Sat 12/4/2004 6:28 AM

Q:
I used to live in San Diego and took up topless dancing for a few months. I later moved to Sacramento and graduated college. I am going on interviews for jobs at big companies, and some of them require a background check. I got my "nude entertainer license" in 2000. I never renewed it after that year. I am wondering how long this will be on my "record" for-if at all.
Z:
First off, remember that I'm not an attorney and I cannot give you legal advice.

Although the information is available, it's not likely that it will be searched for in your background check at a regular company, unless you are going for a government job, or a job that might require a background check or security clearance. For example, anything to do with kids, homeland security, subcontractors for government contracts and the like. So since I don't know what type of job you are seeking, I don't know what your chances are. If it's a regular office job, I think you're probably safe.

One additional consideration is that if you lie to get your job, they can use that to fire you. So if you specifically ask you if you were a stripper, you should answer yes. But I don't see that coming up on a job interview at a normal big business job. If anything, that should be a plus. Tell them you've got special skills no other applicant has.

Stand in line buddy

Tue 11/23/2004 6:55 AM

Q:
If I'm at a club and I see an ATF with a guy, I'll wait for her during the time I'm there. If anything, I'll let her know I'm there but I just hang out until she's free. I understand the whole big spenders come first concept but I still think come from the old school where if a dancer was with a man, she's there until he's satisfied not until someone with more bread shows up.

If I don't interrupt a dancer while she's with someone then I expect her not to try to short-change me with her time and performance in return.

Am I wrong?
Z:
Well, I guess the answer depends on who's point of view and what type of service you are looking for. The situation you are talking about comes up often with dancers and I always tell them that it can be a lose-lose situation for her if she's not careful.

From the dancer's point of view, she obviously wants to please all her customers. If she plays her cards wrong, they could all be pissed off. I tell dancers to try to schedule their customers properly so they are spread out during the week and not overlapping. However, sometimes this cannot be avoided and 2 or more customers may come in at the same time.

If she spends too much time with one, the other will get pissed off. In fact, for some customers, if she spends any time with another customer, he'll get pissed off. In those cases, there's no good solution for her. Looking at it as a business, you don't want to piss off your best customer. However, measuring which one really is your best customer can be a problem. If a regular comes in 3 times a week and spends $100 each trip, he is spending about $1200 per month. But if her big tipper only comes in once a month and spends $1200, she cannot afford to miss that one day or piss him off or she'll miss out on a lot of money.

From the customer's point of view, of course, you want to get at least good service, just like any customer at any business. Does that mean you will never have to stand in line at a store, wait in line for a cab, or get your meal the minute you order? No. But if the wait is extreme, you will probably find another place that has better service.

So it's just business. If you find that your ATF is too busy, either visit her on a slow night when she's not busy, or just find another ATF. But let's face facts. The reason why she's busy is the same reason why that very popular night club has a line around the block and only celebrities get to go to the front of the line. It's supply and demand. She's your ATF for a reason. She's hot and well liked by many. And like any other popular business, the more people want it, the more people want it even more.

So, to answer your question, you're not wrong, but she's not wrong either. It's just business and economics. Don't take it too personally.

Still more lap dance ban?

Sat 6/5/2004 4:45 PM

Q:
I thought this lap dance ban was a dead issue, or was going to require another election. Can you please tell me what is the current status, to the best of your knowledge, specifically as it pertains to 4 Play?
Z:
I've been hearing some bad news lately but I'm not positive the information that I'm getting is correct. I've been hearing that the LAPD is going to not only enforce the new ordinance, but will be enforcing other older ordinances that were not enforced before. For a copy of the new ordinance, see: zbone.me/zone/ordinance175471_revised.htm

Since January 2003, there was a state law passed that requires that the dancer be able to keep all the money that the customer gives them as a tip. Some clubs were getting around this by having the customer pay the floater or bartender, who then keeps the portion of the money for the club, and gives the rest to the dancer. Most clubs simply ignored this law. However, I've been hearing on the grapevine that LAPD may start enforcing this law. This would make getting lap dances a pain because will probably have to pre-pay for your lap dances.

As far as 4 Play is concerned, they may have to make the upstairs accessible to customers who are not getting lap dances to conform with the new ordinance. Basically, the vice cops what to be able to get near the lap dance area without having to pay or be detected.

[Editor's note: The rumor about the old state law being enforced did not come true. However, the new revised ordinance (as of 10/2006) currently still in effect and being enforced.]

Help me help her get started

Wed 6/2/2004 4:34 AM

Q:
I have a friend, she is Chinese and I need to find a good club for her to start working at. She is about 5' 1" and 105 pounds. Her bust size is 34B. She is very tiny and very good looking. She is 40 years old, but looks 30. Her English is limited but she can communicate on a more than simple level. She is very outgoing and loves to flirt and talk with anyone. She is very friendly to all people. This is the only work I can think of where she might make enough money to compete with her current income (I do not know what she currently makes).

My question is, what club can I take her to. I want her to be able to talk honestly to someone about this work. I have prepared the following question in English and Chinese. If there is any place or girl who would be willing to answer these questions, I am willing to pay for the answers.
Z:
I think you need to ask your friend some questions to help place her in the right club. If she has never danced before, she is going to find it difficult to make money at first. It always takes a little time for a non-dancer to get used to the environment. Depending on what type of personality she has, she may not have the time or inclination to wait out the time that will be required for her to basically learn a new trade. It's not true that anybody can start doing good lap dances without any training. That's why I tell customers NOT to get dances from brand new dancers because they are usually not very good at it.

Regarding your questions, the answers will vary depending on many factors. I have talked to hundreds of dancers, have had multiple roommates who were dancers and 3 ex-girlfriends who were dancers so I will try to answer your questions for you with as much detail as possible.

Q:
How old are you?
Z:
I've known dancers from 16 to somewhere in her late 40's. There is one infamous dancer at Fritz who is supposedly over 50 but I cannot confirm it. She's probably in her late 40's. I know 2 dancers at one club who are both in their 40's with kids in their 20's. However, the average age of a dancer is about 26. Dancers at nude clubs are usually younger (18-25) and dancers at topless clubs are older (21-35). Usually 30 seems to be the upper limit of most dancers.

Q:
How long have you been doing this?
Z:
A good friend of mine just retired from dancing and she has been dancing for 8 years. Some dancers do it for a very short time to only pay for their education (2+ years), then quit. Others do it until they cannot make any more money and quit only when they have to. Usually, from my experiences, after 30, the money goes down and it's harder and harder to compete with the 18 year old girls. Most older dancers tend to find older customers who like to talk more than get lap dances. I would say that the average length of time for a dancer would be 5-10 years before retirement.

Q:
How old were you when you started?
Z:
Most dancers start early (18-22) but some start only after some type of hardship (divorce, death, birth of child) and start at 25-30.

Q:
How do you get a job?
Z:
You audition for a manager. Sometimes, if you are extremely good looking, you will not have to audition at all.

Q:
What do you have to do for someone to hire you?
Z:
I know some managers who make girls do sexual favors to get hired, but basically, for the most part, you either get hired or you don't. There are exceptions.

Q:
How long did it take you to get used to being on stage?
Z:
This seems to vary but for most dancers, it takes at least 2 weeks to get used to the stage and setup. However, I personally know dancers who can never get comfortable on stage and must take drugs or drink before they can get on stage. There are also some dancers who are so used to many types of stages (like professional dance contestants), they can get comfortable within minutes.

Q:
What do you tell people when they ask you your job?
Z:
Some dancers tell the truth but most have a fake answer that is very close to the truth. They will say that they are waitresses, bartenders, dancers (as opposed to strippers), or personal assistants, model, actress, etc. Some have more elaborate cover stories like dental office assistant, etc.

Q:
What is the average number of lap dances that you do per shift?
Z:
This will vary a lot. At nude clubs, this can be anywhere from 2-5 to 50+. I know that the upper numbers are record breaking numbers at a top notch club.

Q:
How much do you make per dance and how much of that is paid to the house?
Z:
Again, this varies. Dances can cost from $10 to $50 per song. The house can take from nothing to 50% of the money.

Q:
What do you let men do to you when you do a lap dance?
Z:
This can vary from "no touching" to sexual intercourse.

Q:
How many times per night do you dance on stage?
Z:
This can vary from zero (at a very busy club) to 16+ (in a small club with one or 2 dancers). The average will be around 3-5.

Q:
How many regular customers do you have?
Z:
This will vary from none, to dozens. Some dancers don't have any regular customers and that's the way they like it. The average will be 2-5.

Q:
How long is your normal shift?
Z:
Some clubs allow the dancer to come and go at any time. Other clubs require a minimum 8 hour shift. The average is 4-6 hours.

Q:
What are your best shifts?
Z:
This depends on the type of dancer she is. Usually, if you are a top notch dancer, you will make more money during the busy shifts (Friday, Saturday nights) because it doesn't matter how many other girls are working. Other lesser dancers cannot make money on the competitive nights because they are competing with 20-60 other girls. These girls tend to make more money when the club is slower (day shift, slow night shifts like Sunday) because there are less girls to compete with. These girls also tend to have more regular customers they rely on.

Q:
How many days per week do you work?
Z:
Usually dancers will work 3-5 days a week. I know some dancers who only work 1 day a month and others who work 7 days a week, sometimes doing 2 shifts in one day (Fridays).

Q:
How much do you make on an average shift?
Z:
At topless clubs, this could be as little as $80 to as much as $800+. The average is probably around $150-250. Nude club dancers usually average more from about $200-$500. Of course, there are bad nights when they actually lose money (because they have to pay the house) and once in a lifetime nights where they make $5000. I know a dancer who made $2800 on one stage set. It has never happened again since.

Q:
How much did you make last year?
Z:
Dancers will make from about $30k-$200k+ depending on a lot of factors. Some dancers cannot work consistently because of burn-out and must take a lot of time off during the year so their yearly income is lower than what you would expect.

Q:
How much did you make your first year?
Z:
This one is hard for me to estimate because it would vary greatly depending on how well the dancer was able to fit into the club environment the first year. I would just take a wild guess and say about $30-$50. Once the dancer learns some tricks, and accumulates regulars, then her income can go much higher.

Q:
How many girls are prostitutes?
Z:
Compared to the general population, I would say a larger percentage of dancers are prostitutes. My guess would be about 30%. Technically, this number would be higher if you offered some ridiculous amount of money like $10k for 1 hour. However, this does not mean they are all prostitutes. As a matter of fact, some of them are very against it to the point of ridiculous behavior. I know dancers who have turned down $10k for one night.

Q:
How much drugs and alcohol abuse is there?
Z:
A lot. I would have to say that about 50% probably do some type of drugs (including pot). If you mean hard drugs, I would say about 20%. Many dancers do crystal meth to lose weight or stay skinny.

Q:
Tell her anything that she may need to know about this job that only someone doing this work would know.
Z:
I can tell you that being a dancer is not as easy as it looks. It's a hard job.

Help out a brutha

Sun 5/23/2004 2:17 PM

Q:
I'm getting married in a month and my boys want to throw me a little party. We want to hit up a club locally (OC or South L.A.), but the man in charge is from the Bay area and has a Mitchell Bros standard and no idea what the LA/OC clubs are like.

What I'd like is to have a club with a nice "party" atmosphere with quality entertainment. I'd like the club to have alcohol, but I'm not opposed to getting my drink on either before or after the strip club. As far as the Nasty Factor, my instincts tell me to go to Ecstasy, but I haven't been in that club since it was Paddy Murphy's and unless they've expanded it, the size of the place might not accommodate the dozen guys that will probably be in attendance and still be comfortable. Also, I don't want anyone to go bankrupt in the club. There are so many choices, but I can't figure out which one is going to best accommodate what we're looking for. Can you help a brutha out?
Z:
Ecstasy is still very small and if your party is on Friday or Saturday, it might be a little crowded. It's a very nice club and the talent is great. The bed dances there are also high nasty factor but it's $50 per song and it can get very expensive quickly. They also don't serve alcohol.

If you want to stay in OC and want alcohol, you might try Fritz 2. It's very large and would have no trouble with a party of 50. The talent is okay but don't expect any nasty dances there. Light lap dancing is all you will get there but they also serve food. Both Captain Cream and Library are very upscale with good talent, alcohol and good food. Between the 2, Captain Cream has better dancers but the Library is larger.

[Editor's note: Since this email, the Library has closed down.]

What's really legal?

Mon 5/3/2004 5:08 AM

Q:
My girlfriend is a dancer at a local all nude club.

She's been working there a month, and it came up in conversation tonight that she is unsure what the current law is in L.A re: contact during lap dances (ie: what is currently legal)?

Is the answer to that question on your FAQ section accurate and up to date? Seems to me that if it is, and THOSE are the rules, there couldn't be a club in L.A remaining in business! Vice could close them all in one day. So what's the truth?
Z:
It comes down to enforcement and what can be prosecuted successfully in a large percent of cases. There is also the question of priorities and man power. What is more important to the city? Busting dancers for performing lap dances or gang bangers who kill and scare away tourists? The answer depends on the priorities set by the Mayor on down to the Captains of each division. Each city have a slightly different agenda and you may notice that some cities never had strip club busts (City of Industry) whereas some have monthly sweeps.

To answer your question, in most cases, technically, laws are being broken everyday at most clubs. Are they likely to get busted and closed down? This depends on the political climate. Currently, the city is getting ready to go online with the new ordinance in the next few months. In my opinion, they will use that opportunity to bust a few clubs to make examples of them. This is a technique used by LE to not have to actually bust and prosecute every single club.

By scaring the other clubs into compliance, by making examples of a few, they can accomplish the same end result with less money and man power. Also, keep in mind that just because there's a bust doesn't mean the club is automatically shut down. In most cases, it's back to business as usual within the hour.

In case you didn't see the new ordinance, see: zbone.me/whazup/p-head04.htm and click on the links in the article.

Scary dancer problem

Sun 5/2/2004 3:03 PM

Q:
was hoping you can help me with a problem that I have with a dancer. The first time I met this dancer, apparently I was rude to her. She got angry at me but I apologized. I was turning down dancers left and right. Then when the dancer I wanted to get a dance from came by the angry dancer states to her don't get a dance from him he doesn't want any dances. But I was able to still get a dance from the dancer I wanted.

Second time I encountered the angry dancer, at first she didn't recognize me but she eventually did. She seemed friendly to me. She said that she remembered me and wanted to slap me for being mean, but she was playful when she said this.

The third time I saw her, is why I am writing to you for some advice. She at first just ignored me. When the angry dancer was walking by with her friend later at night, the friend ask me if I want a dance. The angry dancer states don't get a dance from him he is an asshole and walks away. This caught me by suprise but I just brushed it off.

As I was leaving with my friend, she calls me an asshole as I walk by. My friend even told me that she was giving me the evil eye (I didn't notice as I didn't know she was there). I just turned around and smiled at her and then she gives me the finger. I just walk away as I don't want to cause a scene at the club. She looked like she wanted to get into some kind of argument with me, but I figured getting into an argument with her is a losing situation for me. I'm hoping to try and resolve this matter quietly, but I don't see how I can without going to management. Do you have any advice?
Z:
I read your question carefully and I don't see how you can resolve this problem with the dancer. I would mention it to management so that if something were to happen on a subsequent visit, management would be already alerted to the problem. Talk to the manager in a way that makes him understand that all you want is to avoid any trouble for yourself and the club. Explain that you do not want her to get fired but that you wanted them to be aware of what she is doing. The bottom line is, the club does not want their dancers to act in this way, which may scare off other customers.

In all likelihood, this dancer will get fired for some other reason and won't be there the next time you go there. However, if you know that she's an "OG" dancer at that club (and will never get fired), you might want to just use option 2.

Option 2: Go to another club and never come back.

Why No Charlie's Page?

Tue 4/27/2004 12:05 AM

Q:
Long time poster and fan of your web site here. I keep wondering why some of the clubs in LA are not acknowledged in your data base. Particularly Charlie's on Florence. Much gets said about Charlies on other clubs pages. I know they have been around for a long time and they have recently had a grand re-opening. I just started going there myself, and find the place hilarious, and the girls really put on a high energy show.

So what's the deal? Are there political resons some of these clubs are not mentioned? Or just too many clubs, too little time?
Z:
In general, there's no specific reason why one club or another may or may not be in my reviews section. In some cases, I am not aware of the club. In other cases, although I've heard about a club, I've never seen an ad, billboard or anything that confirms the existence of the club. In some unusual cases, it could be political but that would be rare and not the case with Charlies. And in other cases, I've just not got around to putting them in the main section and they are listed in the "New Sightings" section or FAQ.

In the case of Charlie's, I've never been there and I've never talked to anybody that has been there. However, I've gotten email from one person who gave me the address and phone number which I've placed in my FAQ.

[Editor's note: More recently, there are so many new clubs to review, I've concentrated on reviewing new ones that contact me directly. Any club can contact me to setup a review for their club.]

Help me find a club for my dad

Thu 3/18/