What are these places all about?

At one level what they’re about is fantasy, although a different type of fantasy than strip clubs. The hostess club fantasy is, or is at least designed to be, more pseudo-romantic in nature.

It’s no coincidence that these places have (or had) names like Fantasy, Dreamland, Paradise, etc. The original function of these clubs, after all, was to provide the large numbers of new, unassimilated male ethnic immigrants who began arriving in the late 1960’s following a change in immigration policy, with female contacts.

To accommodate these new immigrants, the number of hostess clubs in LA increased from three to eight between 1971 and 1977. Indeed, until the last decade or so, the typical hostess club customer was from the immigrant community.

As more and more “homegrown” customers have discovered these places, however, they have undergone a gradual transformation. These days the clientele is more or less evenly split between those who come for the romantic illusion and those who come in pursuit of (usually) soft-core sexual gratification.

Generally though, what these clubs are about is exploitation, primarily of the customers and secondarily of the hostesses. Some of the customers have real social problems; some of them can’t or don’t want to seek their thrills in normal social circles. The girls realize that the men crave the attention they get from them and that some of them even come in looking to date them, which makes it easy to manipulate them.

According to one of Zbone’s pop polls, the primary reason his readers give for going to strip clubs is for erotic entertainment and eye candy. Nudity is illegal in the hostess clubs, so the girls can’t rely on displaying their bodies to provide erotic stimulation. Besides, most of them don’t have stripper quality bodies or looks – certainly not Bare Elegance or 4 Play or even Spearmint Rhino quality. One of the things they do have in common with strippers is the main reason they’re there is to make money.

Since the girls can’t use their sexuality in the same way strippers can to create a fantasy, they rely on their wit, charm, and conversational skills. New hostesses quickly learn to become adept actresses, feigning affection, laughing at the customers’ jokes, etc., all for the gratification of the client in order to create the desired fantasy.

Some of you may remember that the LA Weekly did a story on these clubs three years ago. What you may not have seen is a letter to the editor from a former hostess in response to the story. IMO the most telling line in the letter is the following: “Today, the only marker of success is how much money a dancer can swindle.” The full letter is at http://www.laweekly.com/ink/99/12/letters.shtml

If you visit a hostess club and take a look around, you will see the girls sitting on one side and the men on the other. You may see the couples dancing like in a regular dance club and your initial reaction will likely be “what’s up with that?” You can’t figure out the HC scene just by watching. In order to get it you’ll have to actually clock in a girl, maybe several girls.

As one of my fellow HC aficionados put it, “If you have [only] gone to strip clubs, you are probably 10% prepared to experience a hostess club. Strip clubs operate on the principle that if you spit out twenty-dollar bills like an ATM a partially nude woman will act dumb and friendly, sit on your lap and wiggle her butt. Basically it is the Stepford Wives scenario, robots on parade.” Note: if any dancers happen to read this, those are his words, not mine, so please don’t send me any angry emails.

“[In contrast], hostess clubs are strange hybrids of depression era dance halls and modern day singles bars. Everyone is on the make and attitudes are openly displayed. Can you take a hostess to a motel room and tear up the sheets? You certainly can. You can also get called a pervert, get your hands slapped, have to listen to how she was raped as a child, have a girl give you her phone number and never return your call, and simply refuse to dance with you. Like life, everything is offered and nothing is guaranteed. Like learning to ride a bicycle for the first time, the initial visit to a hostess club is always somewhat strange and sometimes painful. The milieu is so unique as to be disconcerting on initial contact. If you go, enter the club with an attitude of adventure and observation, not a closed mind and narrow goals. If all you want to do is get off, call an outcall girl.

You will not find elite, escort caliber women there, and the better-looking hostesses are generally the least playful. Hostess clubs are very different from other types of encounters. What they offer is a departure from the norm -- some variety – an adventure on the other side. However, they are no substitute for a good escort session and they are not for everyone.

How do these places work?

The format is basically the same at all clubs. Instead of buying tickets like in the old taxi dance halls of the pre-WWII era, when you ask a girl to dance she'll tell a person at the counter to clock her in. The counter person will either take a card from a rack and punch a time clock or clock her in on a computer. For $.45 a minute, which works out to $27 an hour (there's a 10 min. minimum), you can dance and/or sit and talk on couches with the girl(s) of your choice. You can clock in more than one girl at a time if you like, although I’ve rarely seen this. Of course you will be billed for the time you spend with both. The standard tip in the integrated clubs is to match the bill. For simplicity's sake, I round off to the nearest multiple of $5. Most of the clubs are dry, so the girls can be as young as 18. Most are in their early to mid 20's, a few in their early 30's, very few over 35.

What are the different types of hostess clubs?

There are really two distinct genres of hostess clubs. The smaller category includes the ones that draw a racially mixed crowd. Here most of the girls speak decent English. Physically, these are the nicer clubs. Clubs in this category are Starlight, Fantasy, Monte Carlo, and VIP Lounge. Then there are the Latino clubs, which cater primarily to working class Latinos and the girls are almost exclusively Latinas. Most girls speak only very limited, or zero, English. I suspect that many are undocumented. Many are quite young.

I didn't include this latter group in the first few versions of my FAQ because my experience them with is rather limited and, frankly, I didn't think they would appeal to most of the readers of this site. Most of the information on these clubs is courtesy of some of the “sharks” (more on them later). In this category are Danceland (recently closed but rumored to be reopening soon), Las Palmas, Galaxy, Nine Zero Seven, El Gaucho, LA Grand, and Tropical. Tropical is sort of an “in between” club. Most of the girls are Latinas, but they cater to a mixed crowd and they play very little Latino music. LA Grand also has more variety in terms of customers and girls, and they play a mixture of Latino and American music.

The "rules" for tipping in these clubs are entirely different (see the discussion under Las Palmas in the Club Reviews section of this site). The girls are more likely to ask for the tip up front because they don't expect that much just for dancing. Some girls will grind you without asking and touch you in an intimate way, then ask if you will tip them. In this case, start the negotiations at $20. Once you've agreed on a price and service, do not pay them in advance! Many will take your $$, then find an excuse why the services can't be provided (they may say security is watching you now or something like that) and it will be difficult for you to get your $$ back.

If a girl won't accept that you will tip her when you pay the bill, walk off of the floor, pay your bill, and try another. Don't be surprised if a girl lets you walk off of the floor if you can't agree on a price. There is so much free $$ going around it's hard to say how flexible the girls are at the moment. They probably won't stick around for a tip because they won't be expecting one. If a girl provides extras you can generally tip about half what you would for the same service at the integrated clubs.

A third category is the Asian clubs, but they are more like nightclubs and the emphasis is more on socializing and drinking than dancing and other types of “fun.” These are covered briefly below.

What can I expect in these clubs?

I don’t mean to be glib, but it all depends – primarily on the girl and to a lesser extent on the club. I can’t promise that you’ll get mileage. All I can do is give you a general idea of what’s available. Don't go expecting instant gratification. Remember, your mileage may vary!

Depending on how you define prostitution, there is very little of it actually inside the dance halls. What does go on: very, very suggestive dancing. Very obvious grinding, although some girls don't grind much at all and others will do fairly heavy grinding, and a lot of touchy-feely things, both on the dance floor and in the semi-dark TV rooms. On the dance floor some girls will give obvious signals like deep grinding or grabbing your crotch. Time to go to the TV room! At clubs like LA Grand and VIP where a lot of grinding goes on, condoms are a must.

Depending on the girl, mileage can be comparable to what’s available at clubs like Jet Strip, Valley Ball, Blue Zebra, Déjà Vu North Hollywood, and Spearmint Rhino Industry, etc. Generally speaking the more intimate the contact, the less prevalent the activity. Basically when referring to mileage I’m only talking about what’s possible with most “action girls,” as opposed to most hostesses in general, and the action girls are usually a minority segment of the clubs’ rosters (my best guess is anywhere from 10 to 30 percent, depending on the club).

In trying to get action inside a club, the hardest part is to judge which girls are action girls and which are not. In general look for girls who are dressed more provocatively than average, although than can often be just a come-on.

Before you do any dancing, hang out for a while and try to get a feel for the place. Then pick a girl who looks enticing (but not one of the “trophy girls”) and take her for a 10-minute “test drive.” Try to dance as close as possible and see how she reacts. If she backs you away, doesn’t grind, doesn’t touch you in a sensual manner, or moves your hands away when you go for below the waist access (I mean her ass, not the kitty) it usually means she’s a no-action girl. Just to be sure, ask her what her policy is as far as guys touching her. If she says certain parts of her body are off limits, you know what you need to know.

If she won’t do anything on the dance floor chances are she won’t do anything on the couches either. An exception to this may be a girl who otherwise wouldn’t object (with you, anyway ) who won’t get nasty on the dance floor because “if someone else sees me letting you do that they’ll want to do it too.”

If your girl turns out to be a bust, use this time to check out which other girls are grinding or letting their customers’ hands roam freely. Watch which girls leave the dance floor and head for the TV room -- and which ones head back to the time clock after less than 10-15 minutes dancing (usually not a good sign!). If you see girls sitting on the couches for long stretches of time without being clocked in, that’s also not a good sign – especially if they’re very attractive.

When it becomes apparent a girl isn’t going to provide what you’re looking for, cut your losses. Remember that there's only a 10-minute minimum, so don't be reluctant to clock a girl out. If you spend 10 minutes or less with her it is not inappropriate to not give a tip and you shouldn’t feel bad about it (I’m not saying you shouldn’t give a tip, just that you shouldn’t feel obligated to). She can’t really squawk because the most she could have realistically expected was $5. If you do this with several girls in a row, however, it could cause other girls to suspect that you’re a cop. LE's MO is to check out many ladies and quickly return them if they don't say something incriminating.

Sometimes it will take more than 10 minutes to determine if you’ve got an action girl, but if you reach the 30-minute mark without getting some concrete indication from her that she’s willing to play, you should end the session forthwith. In this case, as long as she was reasonably pleasant, give her as minimal a tip as you possibly can without feeling like an asshole (I usually give $10). As you get more experience under your belt, you should be able to tell what kind of girl you’re dealing with within the first 10-15 minutes.

BTW, don’t bother emailing me asking for tips on which girls are good or which clubs are best for mileage. Unless I know you, I’m not going to tell you. If you find that you’re just not having good luck in picking action girls, try talking to some of the other customers. If you go to a given club frequently enough you’ll see a lot of the same, familiar faces. Just strike up a conversation with one of them, but in the beginning you should only make idle chitchat. Once you become a familiar face they should feel more at ease with you and be more open to sharing information with you.

If you’re starting to get the idea that the pursuit of a good time in a hostess club is more involved than in a strip club, you’re right. In the beginning it’s largely a process of trial and error and in some cases luck. If you can talk a good rap, you’ve got a leg up on everyone else.

Depending on how often you go, you can expect your learning curve to last anywhere from a few to several months. It’s like that old adage, you have to walk before you can run and you have to crawl before you can walk. This process tends to weed out the thrill seekers and those who aren’t serious about hostess clubs.

Can I get a lap dance in a hostess club?

There are a couple of clubs where you can get lap dances. If you find a girl who’s willing to give you a lap dance who wants to charge you on a per dance basis, tell her you’re willing to give her a little extra for the session but you won’t pay for each dance. I once asked a girl if she could give me a lap dance and she said she would for $20. I pointed out that that may be what they cost in a strip club, but there the dancers only got to keep half (after accounting for tips to the floater, bartender, security, etc.). She countered that the songs were full length and there was no bouncer or floater to worry about. I ended up declining to get a dance.

I don’t believe in paying for service in an HC on a piecemeal basis. I think it sets a bad precedent. To illustrate my point, there is a girl in one club who has a body good enough to be a stripper. When she first began she made good money because she was cute, but then word spread that she didn’t do anything and the money dried up. Things did get slow for her and she took a hiatus from hostessing. Later she returned with a vengeance sporting a new hard grind and lap dance program.

She started drawing customers who drifted in from a nearby strip club. Because they didn’t know any better they were paying her strip club prices to dance with her. Now she is starting to avoid the hostess club regulars.

One former customer had gotten a couple of good dances with her and tipped the bill but now she won't dance with him. This is at a club where even what few attractive girls they have can easily go long stretches of time without getting clocked in.

IMO there’s simply no good reason why you should tip $20 or even $10 for a lap dance in a hostess club. These aren’t strip clubs and that’s not the way these places work. Even at $5 per dance it’s still a good deal for the girls. Assuming the average song is four minutes long, a girl could conceivably perform 15 lap dances in an hour. Let’s pick a more realistic number like 10 or 12, which I have frequently seen at Fritz. That’s a relatively easy $50-$60 for 40-48 minutes of work without having to provide any real high mileage. Actually, most girls’ legs would give out well before that because they’re not used to giving laps for extended periods of time.

Also look at it this way: these days a strip club lap dance isn’t usually considered truly high mileage unless the dancer does something more than just grind in your lap and let you touch her all over. In a hostess club you don’t need to get a lap dance to get that kind of service. Just about anything a girl can do while giving a lap dance she can also do either sitting next to you on the couches or dancing with you on the dance floor. Very few of these girls have ever worked in a strip club and they simply don’t know how to give good lap dances.

Also, in a strip club, lap dances are the dancers’ primary source of income. That’s not the case with hostess girls. Furthermore, the laps aren’t topless like they are at HT/SRI/TL, etc. Most of girls are more or less fully clothed (which means much less contact) and they can’t provide the same fantasy factor or erotic stimulation you’d get in a strip club, not to mention the fact that physically most of them can’t hold their own with most strippers. The bottom line is an HC lap dance isn’t nearly as good as an SC lap dance and therefore isn’t worth nearly as much.

When is the best time to go?

The best time to go to these clubs is mid-week, particularly Thursdays and Wednesdays, in that order. That’s when the best selection is. Fridays are almost as good, but on weekends the selection is usually not that good because most of the "A list" girls like to keep their weekends free. The trade-off is that weekends are less crowded and thus offer more privacy. Late at night is not a good time to go. Fantasy gets very busy after 11 PM and VIP and Boss get crowded after 10 PM. For the best selection try to arrive before 9 PM (before 8:30 at Fantasy so you can see the night shift come in). After that the good freaking real estate, particularly at Fantasy, will be hard to come by. The larger clubs like Fantasy easily have up to 150 girls on the active roster; although typically between 60-80 will work on any given night. Everything is crowded--and customers face serious waits for the most desirable females.

What about dress codes?

The only clubs I know of that have dress codes are Tropical, Boss (see the Club Reviews section of this site) and Fantasy. There are notices posted on the walls at Fantasy advising that T-shirts and shorts are not allowed, but enforcement of this policy seems to be very selective.

Do you have to buy drinks for the girls?

There is no “buy the lady a drink?” hustle, but all of the clubs have waiters or waitresses who frequently go in and out of the couch areas asking the couples if they need anything. The clubs instruct the girls to always say, “yes” although they don’t always do so. If you think you have an action girl, always order a drink, even if she doesn’t, and be sure to give the waiter or waitress a decent tip. This should ensure that they leave you alone for a while.

Which clubs serve alcohol?

With the recent loss by Boss of their liquor license, none of the clubs are currently serving alcohol. However, Minato has applied for a liquor license and I understand that the other COI (City of Industry) clubs will soon follow suit. As I understand it, it has something to do with the type of license these clubs have. Apparently they are licensed not as hostess clubs but as lounges (note that VIP and Sugar Honey both have the word “lounge” in their names. Indeed, Sugar Honey sold alcohol when it first opened and VIP did when it was a private club), and one of the requirements of a lounge license is that they sell alcohol.

How old do I have to be?

Until they lost their liquor license, Boss had a sign in the outer lobby advising that you had to be at least 21, and I imagine the same will hold true for the other COI clubs once they obtain their liquor licenses. For now though, you should be able to get in if you’re over 18. The downtown clubs are prohibited from selling alcohol, so you only have to be 18.

How safe are the areas where these clubs are located?

Monte Carlo and VIP are both located in strip malls quite safe. Most of the downtown LA clubs are located in rundown areas, but most of them have security parking adjacent to the club. As long as you stick to the immediate vicinity of the clubs you should be OK. Occasionally a homeless person will hit you up for money, but this is more of an annoyance than anything else.

What should I wear to the clubs?

Avoid wearing a suit if at all possible. If not, at least remove your tie. A blazer worn with casual slacks and shirt is fine. Wear nice, clean, casual clothes. Dressy casual is OK too. Lightweight, soft cotton pants (not Dockers!) are best for grinding. You won’t score any fashion points, but oversized Hawaiian or similar type shirts are good for disguising certain activities while sitting down, if you get my drift. Some guys like to wear light jackets that they can place over their lap, but IMO that just makes it too obvious that they’re trying to conceal something. If you must wear shorts, make sure they’re below the knee. Sweats are acceptable in most clubs. Obviously it helps to have bathed that day and to smell good.

When is Club Flamingo going to reopen?

According to their information hotline at (213) 748-2512, they have relocated to 110 E. 17^th St. (corner of 17th and Los Angeles St.). The latest message on the hotline says they will be opening “in the fall.” That message, however, is probably several months old. There has been a lot of speculation over when and if they will ever reopen. The full story on the situation, or at least what I know of it, is way too convoluted to go into here, but the bottom line is that they are most likely not going to reopen.

Is Fantasy going to close?

I have heard from three different sources that they were going to be closing soon. However, I have also received uncorroborated reports that they recently renewed their lease. The bottom line is we’ll just have to wait and see.

Are there any clubs in the Valley/Westside/Orange County?

Not that I’m aware of.

What about the Asian hostess bars?

A friend of mine went to one of these places once with a hostess from one of the COI clubs. It looked like a traditional nightclub with a full bar. According to her, here’s how it works: these are really late night places and the action just begins at 10:00. There is a minimum charge of $80/hour no matter what you eat or drink. The $80 includes your food and drink unless of course you order more than 80 dollars worth.

If you want one of the girls to sit with you, it's an additional $40/hr. plus a $20 tip to the Mama-san. The girls that he saw were very attractive. There were about 10 of them around but they were not obviously sitting together. The Mama-san knows where they are. If you want to take a girl home during operating hours it is $300 to the Mama-san and $300 to the girl. The girl said that only a few rich tourists from Taiwan ever exercise that option. Most customers that want a girl wait for the club to close and pay the girl $300. There are several of these clubs, mostly Chinese-owned, along Valley Blvd. in the San Gabriel Valley. I understand some of these places are well known for being hangouts for alleged Asian organized-crime members.

The girl told my friend that they probably would not have let him in if she had not been with him. Apparently it's more a matter of language skills and a complicated formal/informal pricing structure that makes them shun non-Asians rather than outright discrimination. There would just be too many arguments over the bill.

There are also some Korean hostess bars in the general vicinity of downtown LA, and I understand there is a club in Little Tokyo. I don’t know if they operate the same as the San Gabriel Valley clubs, but I remember reading an LA Times article on the Korean clubs several years ago. What they have in common with their Chinese counterparts is they are very expensive and no action takes place inside the clubs.