What kind of girls work as hostesses?

First, you need to understand that you’re dealing with a different breed of girl than you’ll find in the strip clubs. On the whole they seem less hardened and jaded than most strippers. Also unlike strippers, most of them don’t realize what they’re getting into when they start working the clubs. Due to the nature of the business, the girls often have to "go along in order to get along" to a certain extent. Usually, unless a girl is very attractive (an 8 or better) and reasonably intelligent and a good conversationalist, even if she won’t do extras she will probably have to put up with at least a certain amount of touching and fondling in order to do well. Many new hostesses balk at this, at least initially. Eventually they either “get with the program” or they leave. The turnover rate is very high because many girls can’t handle it.

Most of the girls who work in these places do so out of economic necessity or expediency. Some are too lazy and flaky to work a regular job. Some aren’t attractive enough or are too inhibited to work as strippers. Some are illegal immigrants and couldn't get a decent paying job. Many are single mothers. Then there are the students for whom it is a convenient way of making easy money to pay for school. Still others have regular jobs during the day and moonlight as hostesses two or three nights a week to supplement their income. With the exception of this latter group, most of them have limited marketable skills and, outside of stripping, where else can they make $27 an hour?

How much do hostesses make?

For girls who dance and perform in an obvious sexual manner, it is customary to get tips equal to the per-minute total charge or better, depending on the service. For girls who don't: much less, or none. Many of the girls average about $125-$150 in tips per night, the more popular ones (not necessarily the nastiest) may average up to $200. On a good night, they may make as much as $300. Some of the more popular ones have regulars who may tip as much as $100 per hour, and I've even heard of $200 tippers. These "high rollers" are usually Asian, or in some cases, middle easterners.

I asked a former CF hostess, hereinafter referred to as “Miss A,” how many girls she knew of who made between $200-$300 a night or more. Her reply: "-$200 a night, occasionally/once a week, during what used to be considered "good nights." -$300 a night, few rare girls. Mostly thanks to regulars dancing with the girl for the whole 4-5 hours. I know two that used to make that much (used = ‘95 when the Fantasy was populated with Asian + Suit-only type of customers.) Nowadays we got a Russian girl (long light brown hair, top 5’5", good shape, no accent, nice ass) busy from beginning to end that claims to make $ 400-500 per night. No clue on what her name is. Nobody working at the club can stand her. Most of the girls shoot for $150-180 per night average." Editorial comment: while "most of the girls" may shoot for $180 per night on the average, I would say $150 is a more realistic amount.

Miss A says that some girls have adopted a new theory. You give them one dollar per minute. Whatever you want to do during that time is covered by it. IMO if truly "anything goes" then $1/minute isn’t too bad provided you complete your business within an hour or less. Otherwise the girl is pricing herself out of the market. I have yet to encounter a girl like this.

How much should I tip the hostesses?

In the past I typically matched the bill for light to moderate touching and grinding and frequently tipped 1-1/2 times the bill for heavy-duty touching and grinding (including booty dancing) plus feeding (if you have to ask what this is, you may be too young or naïve to be reading this. Use your imagination and you should be able to figure it out) and other comparable extras. That may not sound like a lot compared to what you'd spend for comparable service in a strip club, but the girls seemed satisfied with it.

Later, I heard from some of the "sharks" out there that I was tipping too much. They feel that the tip should be predicated solely on the nature of the service, and if the girl doesn’t provide some kind of extra you shouldn’t tip her at all. As they like to put it, "no honey, no money." See the discussion under “What is a shark?” for a clarification of this.

There are basically two schools of thought on tipping. There is the shark mentality that believes in paying for the service, not the time. The sharks usually have a specific service in mind and a specific amount of money that they’re willing to pay for it. In short, they’re looking to make a deal. This approach works fine for the “completion” driven clients who get their business done within a reasonable amount of time, say 30 to 45 minutes, an hour at the most.

Then there are those such as myself who are willing to tip decently (but not exorbitantly) for service, acting, and general satisfaction. I’m not necessarily looking to make a specific deal per se. For me the thrill of the hunt is half the fun. Most of the time I just like to see how far I can get a girl to let me go. I must admit there’s something fascinating and exciting about getting action from these “normal” or “amateur” girls in the quasi-underground society known as hostess clubs. This can get a little more intricate than a routine manipulation from a veteran HC provider.

So if you are running another (non-shark) kind of game the tip amounts may vary. This is a simple business reality, enforced by the girl's desire to make money efficiently. A client can play the fast action game and with the right girl, probably get a satisfactory deal for both. Or, a more complex client may want to run an extended session. The tipping can get more vague as the clock time runs up.

So how much should you tip? Miss A says, "To be safe let’s put it this way: The harder you make it for the girl to deal with you the higher the donation. No action, just chatting, rubbing back, dancing (light grinding), tip the bill and you're fine. A standard quote [for manipulation by the hostess] is $40, one hour (top)."If you’re looking for something more than that, e.g., TL “back couch style” mileage (pre-VIP room days), it’s generally the exception rather than the rule. The standard $40 service such as in the example above is fairly easy to conceal, but anything more than that requires a lot more privacy and is very difficult to accomplish except either very early or very late when hardly anyone else is around.  These places are dark, but they’re not that dark.

Now it just so happens that $40 is approximately 1.5 times the hourly clock rate. Here are two general rules of thumb to follow in tipping, both using the standard $40 service as a base. First, if the clock time is more than an hour and the service included a manipulation or something you consider equal in value, you should tip no more than 1.5 times the bill. A more preferable variation of this would be to tip $40 for the service and just match the clock for anything over an hour. Most girls will be satisfied with the latter, and IMO there’s really no reason to tip more. Second, you should increase your tip by a factor of .5 for each rung you go up the mileage ladder. If drinks and waitresses’ tips are included in the bill (this is standard procedure at Starlight, VIP, Boss, and SH), then you should deduct those amounts from the total when figuring out the tip.

Now just in case you think I’m telling you to lowball the girls on the tips, I want to make clear that’s not what I’m saying! What I’m saying is don’t over-tip! I didn’t just pull these figures out of a hat. These amounts are what I and other veterans have learned from experience to be the going rates for the various services described or alluded to, as the case may be. I know most of you reading this come from a strip club background. You need to put aside everything you learned about strip club tipping practices and start with a new mindset. It’s a fallacy to base your tips on what you pay in the strip clubs. Hostess clubs are a completely different type of animal.

I want to emphasize that these aren’t meant to be hard and fast rules but rather guidelines. There is wiggle room. The real purpose and true benefit is to keep tips within a reasonable range that the market has found acceptable. Barring wild extremes, a market will find its own level. If the girls are sticking around, then that means they are satisfied with their overall average cash intake. It's up to the regular customer to make sure his tipping is not at the extremes. Second, despite efforts to have a "price schedule," we have to remember that the girls have their own thoughts and expectations. It’s not as simple as a menu.

One other thing to keep in mind is when the hostess knows you are willing to pay, say, $40 for only grinding, she always expects you to pay that much for that service.  As Miss A says,“She thinks it is a set quote. It can go up, but must NOT go down. She won't reject you and if anybody else asks, you get good publicity too. You tip her $40 bucks less and she's going to wrinkle her nose and give you "the talk" next time you guys dance.”

I can almost guarantee you that a hostess will never return $$ to you and say “...oh no here's $40 back, I only charge $40 for that, not $80.” If you overpay for services the hostess will smile and put the $$ in her purse. She may put you at the top of her preferred customer list. She may jump off of the couch and run to hug and kiss you when you walk into the club. But I doubt if many will let you know you're overpaying and give the $$ back to you. This doesn't mean that they aren't sweet, pleasant, or decent. It just means that they are looking out for themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that.

However, if you attempt to give a hostess $40 for something she always gets $80 for she will definitely let you know that she expects more. They don't care that you only make $8/hr. or just got laid off or lost a fortune in the stock market. If you can't pay her what she is used to then you should dance with someone else. This doesn't make her a bad person; she is just looking out for number one. The girls do it individually and also collectively by trying to set club pricing standards. Moral: don’t worry about them, worry about you.

Finally, I’m well aware that some men just seek companionship and conversation. If all they want is for someone to listen to their problems, hold their hand, and hug them, fine. If they’re just seeking “intimacy” (regular Zbone readers will know what I mean ) that’s fine too. But to pay $40, $50, $60, or even $100 an hour for such service when there’s simply no need to is ridiculous. This spoils the girls and jacks up the price of action for everyone else.

What is a "sharkette?"

A sharkette is a hustler. There are even sub-categories of sharkettes. Some of them are very overt and will ask for the tip up front. This type usually just wants to get right down to business and has little interest in chitchat. Dealing with them often feels like dealing with a hooker. Some will come straight out and tell you their minimal tip is $100. These girls in particular need to be put in their place. If they say that to you, don’t try to argue with them. Don’t say a word. Just get up and take them back immediately. If a girl asks how much you’re going to tip her or if you’ll “be nice to her,” etc., it doesn’t necessarily mean she’s a sharkette, but you should be on your guard.

Other girls are more covert and will brag about how much money they make, thereby trying to implant the idea in your head that you should tip them generously. Some of them have been so spoiled by the “suits” that they practically have a sense of entitlement regarding big tips. I tell the girls I don’t care what other guys tip, that I’ll tip them fairly but I won’t tip big for doing nothing. If they don’t like it they can always say they want to clock out.

If a girl claims she makes $200+ a night and she’s not hot you should be skeptical. If she claims she makes $300+ a night you should be skeptical even if she is hot. If she claims to make $400-$500 a night you should just figure she’s blowing smoke, even if she’s “Baywatch” quality. You could probably count on one hand the number of girls at CF who make $300+ on a consistent basis and still have some fingers left over. Usually it’s because they have a high turnover rate, going from one customer to the next about every half hour. Even then, they usually also have to work longer shifts such as from 6 to 2.

Other girls are very good at laying on the BS compliments and getting a guy to like them. They are not typical sharkettes, as they do not have the cutthroat personality of some of the true sharkettes. You really need to be on your toes with this type. They eat newbies alive. They are excellent at making you think things are going well or that you are special to them and can date them on the outside, all the while managing to avoid coming across with the goods.

If a girl tells you she charges more than the going rate for service, tell her if she won’t do it for your price you will respect that and move on till you find someone who will, and with the number of girls working the club, someone will be willing to provide mileage at a reasonable price ... and not necessarily an unattractive girl.

That's the thing about this, for the high mileage girls the cash money is damn good and more than most of these girls could expect to make from a day's work. Sure it can be rather intimate work at times, but that is the nature of these places. Unless they are hostile the thing to do is be upfront, respectful, and point out the economic reality of the situation, i.e., you can get it from the next girl cheaper. Always think with the big head. Don't let your horniness get the better of you and agree to an exorbitant tip.  Rule #1 of negotiating: be willing to walk away. There is no pressure here; it is a business transaction. Both parties can move on to the next person.

When things with a girl are obviously not going to work out, try to leave on a friendly basis. Only resort to being an asshole when the girl makes you. I’ve had girls tell me “well, I don't do that but so and so does, etc.” Comments like that will earn the girl a small tip vs. no tip. The same thing works with the overpriced girls, like one who initially told me she did nothing but then said, “well if I do I want a lot of money.” “O.K.” I said, “so really you do everything, you just charge a lot.” “Yes” was the final answer.

Remember that many of these girls have become accustomed to a level of living that they would not be able to afford were it not for these clubs. Very few have the earning potential outside of the club as they do inside.

Do the girls go out with customers?

Some of them will, if you can manage to find one who isn’t a flake. Most of the time though, they only go on paid dates with customers who tip well. They expect to be paid for the time spent with the customer just as if they had seen him in the club. Once you've defined yourself as a paying customer, there's no incentive for them to accept you as anything else.

Elsewhere on this site, "Mistress Xena" has covered the subject of customers dating strippers. I won’t rehash that here, except to say that everything she says can be applied to hostess girls as well. I say, see them for outside sessions if you can but forget about dating them. Don’t be like the guys who seem determined to make the HC scene "The Love Connection" even though everyone with experience has told them that this scene is called "Let's Make a Deal.” To put it bluntly, IMO looking for a relationship in a hostess club is the epitome of putting the “P” in PL.

Sure, sometimes I like a little bit of fantasy - a dose of GFE if you will - along with my action, but that’s not the main reason I go to these clubs. I’m not knocking those who do go for that reason; to each his own. The important thing to realize is that it’s only a fantasy, and a fleeting one at that. To think of it any other way is just self-delusion.

As I alluded to above, hostess girls are notorious for being major flakes, even more so than strippers, especially the younger ones. I think it’s safe to say that these girls aren't the most rational females on earth. On top of that many of them have lots of turmoil going on in their lives, to put it mildly. Many of them abuse alcohol or drugs.

Many of them will freely give out their pager #s, even to first-time customers. The purpose of this is to get you to return and ask them to dance again to find out why they didn't return your call(s)! Many of them have no intention of going out with you on a "paid date" or to do an outside session. As one OG said: "It don't mean s**t, that you got her number, 'cause she gives her pager # to everyone and doesn't return any (most) calls."

You need to understand something: these girls lie!  I’ll share with you what one girl whom I knew fairly well once told me. She said, “don’t ever trust any girl who works in these clubs; don’t even trust me.” I strongly suggest you take that advice to heart.

Now even though they could make more money seeing customers on the outside, many girls probably don’t because of the logistical difficulties, i.e., boyfriends, kids, etc., not to mention the fact that for all they know the customer could be a stalker. They would rather confine their nasty deeds to the club, where they’re in a controlled environment.  If you do manage to find a girl who’s willing to do outside service and she quotes you a standard full-scale escort rate, you should counteroffer with a low-end escort rate. If she won’t go for it you should move on. Here’s why: HC girls that do outside sessions are those who can’t or won’t be full-scale escorts or street girls, and the clients fall in the same middle ground. Thus it only makes sense that pricing should be right in the middle as well.